No Brembos = suck

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Not to keep beating this dead horse, but why do high-end sports car offer ceramic brake packages? Is it so much bling and bragging rights? Or do the higher HP and weight cars actually need that much fade resistance? Assume we're talking actual track use, not just cruising down the boulevard.

Personal opinion: 51% bling. There's definitely benefits to them, one being longevity. But I imagine most people who buy a high end sports car aren't going enduro racing in it. They'll do 20 minute track sessions where steel brakes and good pads get the job done. I think they get the job done.... I don't remember every high end sports car made before ceramic brakes existed crashing during 20 minute HPDE sessions, but I am getting old now and could be misremembering.

[dowroa]

If you were getting ceramic brakes on a street car and you don't have a hobby of just catching money on fire for fun, I think it would be for bling and longevity (on the street only).

Then, when you go to the track, remove those discs/ pads, put on some iron/track ones, complete the HPDE, come back and put the bling back on (or have your indentured servants do it for you, of course), and go back to bling.

Else, they don't make sense for a normal man to keep replacing at track days. Even if I did earn 25-30k a month, I have better uses for my money than to flush it down the drain at track days.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Let's just let that whole thing fizzle instead to restarting it. Everyone stated their mind. Time to move on.

That was my opinion until................. This guy is never going to live this down any more then "can't see my brake pads" guy.

Originally Posted by s30series

Waiting for videos of your stock brakes (not Brembos) at RA/AMS working over 20 minutes without issue while actually driving the car near it's limits....

And waiting for you to show up at the Atlanta PEC


What makes you think I'm little by the way?

Why don't you show video of you driving period? You called it out, burden of proof is on you to show some evidence. What was the setup on your stock brakes that failed so miserably?

Again, T4 race cars run stock calipers. Here is 2020 Runoffs at Road America, 30 minute race. I know it is not RA, I can't find any T4 video of that circuit.

https://www.scca.com/videos/2039602

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by dowroa

If you were getting ceramic brakes on a street car and you don't have a hobby of just catching money on fire for fun, I think it would be for bling and longevity (on the street only).

Then, when you go to the track, remove those discs/ pads, put on some iron/track ones, complete the HPDE, come back and put the bling back on (or have your indentured servants do it for you, of course), and go back to bling.

Else, they don't make sense for a normal man to keep replacing at track days. Even if I did earn 25-30k a month, I have better uses for my money than to flush it down the drain at track days.

I have only seen one track car with carbon ceramic rotors that was NOT a showroom stock Porsche or Lambo out for a joyride. Most just run iron friction rings because even at high amounts of disposable income, F that. The guy that had ceramic rotors told me there is not a thickness limit for wear. You are supposed to weigh them when you get them, then reweigh them after track days. Wear is measured by mass lost

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I know it is not RA, I can't find any T4 video of that circuit.

Well Road America is harder on brakes than Road Atlanta, so your evidence is hereby accepted.

But, that having been said, John Heinracy is a complete scrub of a driver. Probably hasn't even been an instructor twice for a Porsche Driving Experience. No way he's driving the car at the limit.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Not to keep beating this dead horse, but why do high-end sports car offer ceramic brake packages? Is it so much bling and bragging rights? Or do the higher HP and weight cars actually need that much fade resistance? Assume we're talking actual track use, not just cruising down the boulevard.

I attended a tech talk about brakes at one of the local shops that specializes on tuning Porsches for track driving, deals with Porsche actual race cars on a daily basis, as well as with rich customers.

When asked about PCCB, they literally said
"If you buy a Porsche with CCB, and you plan to track it, the first thing you should do is take the CCB off, put iron rotors on. When it's time to sell the car, put the CCBs back on and charge the buyer saying the rotors are new and it costs $XXk to replace them."

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I have only seen one track car with carbon ceramic rotors that was NOT a showroom stock Porsche or Lambo out for a joyride. Most just run iron friction rings because even at high amounts of disposable income, F that. The guy that had ceramic rotors told me there is not a thickness limit for wear. You are supposed to weigh them when you get them, then reweigh them after track days. Wear is measured by mass lost

IIRC, there's also some (very expensive) equipment some Porsche dealerships have for measuring the residual thickness without taking the rotors off.
"Very expensive" = not practical for tuning shops and DIY enthusiasts.

At 1:36 in this video, Jason explains some fun stuff about "even newer CCB technology".
The coating is just 0.1 mm thick. Good luck measuring that...

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by dowroa

If you were getting ceramic brakes on a street car and you don't have a hobby of just catching money on fire for fun, I think it would be for bling and longevity (on the street only).

Then, when you go to the track, remove those discs/ pads, put on some iron/track ones, complete the HPDE, come back and put the bling back on (or have your indentured servants do it for you, of course), and go back to bling.

Else, they don't make sense for a normal man to keep replacing at track days. Even if I did earn 25-30k a month, I have better uses for my money than to flush it down the drain at track days.

Agreed. I find it so interesting that they tout those brakes as being essentially lifetime when the truth is that they wear fairly fast and cost like 10k for rotors…

[s30series]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That was my opinion until................. This guy is never going to live this down any more then "can't see my brake pads" guy.



Why don't you show video of you driving period? You called it out, burden of proof is on you to show some evidence. What was the setup on your stock brakes that failed so miserably?

Again, T4 race cars run stock calipers. Here is 2020 Runoffs at Road America, 30 minute race. I know it is not RA, I can't find any T4 video of that circuit.

https://www.scca.com/videos/2039602

I'm not the one saying "Brembos aren't necessary for track days"

Your proof is google....do I need to give you a LMGTFY link, or do you know how to search the internet for "stock BRZ brake fade during track events"?

Go back to the kids table

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by s30series

I'm not the one saying "Brembos aren't necessary for track days"

Your proof is google....do I need to give you a LMGTFY link, or do you know how to search the internet for "stock BRZ brake fade during track events"?

Go back to the kids table

Proof is in the link you just quoted, T4 race cars at Road America. Stock calipers as mandated by the rules. 30 minute race at a track that is hard on brakes.

Sounds like you were running unsuitable pad/fluid combo. Post up what you are using. We can suggest something more suitable.

Or, it sounds like your braking technique needs some work. Post up some video and some of us can give you pointers

[Ultramaroon]

lol

[gen3v8]

Give me some pointers. I love em

[s30series]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Proof is in the link you just quoted, T4 race cars at Road America. Stock calipers as mandated by the rules. 30 minute race at a track that is hard on brakes.

Sounds like you were running unsuitable pad/fluid combo. Post up what you are using. We can suggest something more suitable.

Or, it sounds like your braking technique needs some work. Post up some video and some of us can give you pointers

Ahh yes- because pads and RBF is the cure to brake fade.

Hopefully Brembo, Wilwood, AP Racing, etc doesn't find out this revelation

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Proof is in the link you just quoted, T4 race cars at Road America. Stock calipers as mandated by the rules. 30 minute race at a track that is hard on brakes.

Sounds like you were running unsuitable pad/fluid combo. Post up what you are using. We can suggest something more suitable.

Or, it sounds like your braking technique needs some work. Post up some video and some of us can give you pointers

clearly you know nothing about race cars. real drivers pay for the real mods.

now, i need to get back to installing my genuine trd aero stabilizer. it's increases my trap speed by 45mph!

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by s30series

Ahh yes- because pads and RBF is the cure to brake fade.

Hopefully Brembo, Wilwood, AP Racing, etc doesn't find out this revelation

I think you should focus more on tire compound and weight loss over brake fade. That's what Ken Miles taught me.