Anyone cross shopping the new WRX?

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

If budget is such an issue for a new car, do you really think that person is going to be doing any sort of performance driving?

Yes. See it all the time. It's come to my attention that you're not familiar with the word "compromise." Normal people engage in this activity. For example, some people might want a daily driver that has symmetrical AWD for bad weather, a non-back-breaking suspension to go to work in every day, but also want to go out and smile while lapping the car at the local track once every couple months. These same people realize that to the hardcore enthusiasts, the STI might be the better option given the extra HP, DCCD, limited slips, etc. But, they're totally happy taking their pleb WRX around all while having a blast.

[ayau]

The STI and its complex AWD system is overkill for 99% of the current STI owners. Most of them don't even know how the system works and how it's different than the WRX's simpler AWD system.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Pete

Very lacking compared to a 911 turbo!



What do you consider "performance driving"? A WRX is going to 'performance drive' a lot better than a corolla every single time you drive it, by a wide margin. That's what you get when you spend more money.

And, seriously, budget is a big deal for nearly everyone buying a car, that's why we aren't chatting on a McLaren forum. Unless you are Bill Gates.

Corolla = 20k
WRX = 30k
WRX STi - 40k
Supra = 50k
C8 = 60k (supposedly)

You get the idea.

Very lacking compared to it's own competition.

Anything you need to pay to drive on a closed course. Not some backroads where some seasoned driver is supposedly extracting tons of performance in a safe manner.

Budget is a big deal, I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is if someone wants to go and do some serious HPDEs, and the WRX is your go to car because you can't afford the STi, well you should've started looking at the used market first then.

... the WRX and STi are 30/40k in the states? That's basically Canadian prices. You guys are being overcharged.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

if someone wants to go and do some serious HPDEs

Ahhh, makes sense now. You just don't know how to have fun. HPDE's are not serious. If you take them seriously, you're doing it wrong. Safety at HPDE's? Yes, please take very seriously. Lap times? Nope. That's what schools and time attacks are for.

But seriously, your point makes absolutely no sense. If it DID make sense, not a single '22 BRZ would be sold because everyone could go buy a salvage title used first gen for 1/4 the price and make it stupid fast for less money than a new '22.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Very lacking compared to it's own competition.

What is the sporty AWD competition at 30k new?

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Anything you need to pay to drive on a closed course. Not some backroads where some seasoned driver is supposedly extracting tons of performance in a safe manner.

So you are saying the only time you should ever get a car faster than a corolla is for track use? The overwhelming majority of sports cars never see the track, ever, yet regular people still enjoy driving them.

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Budget is a big deal, I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is if someone wants to go and do some serious HPDEs, and the WRX is your go to car because you can't afford the STi, well you should've started looking at the used market first then.

1. You are moving the goal posts. At first you said "I see no reason to buy a WRX when the STi exists", but now you are saying "if someone wants to go and do some serious HPDEs". These are not the same thing.

2. You could buy a used WRX just as easily as a used STi. That argument doesn't make much sense to me. The WRX is always going to be the cheaper, slower option than the STi no matter where you buy them (as long as it's the same place).

Also, under normal circumstances, I'd agree about the going with the used market first, just in general...but man, right now it is crazy out there. In fact that is the reason I am planning to get a new car instead. The price delta between a brand new car and a car with 30k miles is almost nothing.

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

... the WRX and STi are 30/40k in the states? That's basically Canadian prices. You guys are being overcharged.

I rounded but yeah basically.
WRX starts at 27.5
STi starts at 37.2
Each one has about 4k in trim options available.

[ACT86]

Originally Posted by Pete

What is the sporty AWD competition at 30k new?

Everyone is different, but sporty and AWD generally don’t fit together well for me. AWD just equals unnecessarily heavy. Hell, my wife’s family hatch back (FWD) is quicker round a track than an STI and more fun to drive. I think things have just moved on.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by ACT86

Everyone is different, but sporty and AWD generally don’t fit together well for me. AWD just equals unnecessarily heavy. Hell, my wife’s family hatch back (FWD) is quicker round a track than an STI and more fun to drive. I think things have just moved on.

I have been driving a FWD hatch these past few years and I think that is the primary drawback of this platform. It is competent but rarely fun(for me). From what I have read the civic type r is an amazing FWD car but it is pricey and I've never driven one of those. I admit, I've also never driven anything AWD that is meant to be sporty, but there are plenty of fast cars that have it...like... the 911 turbo lol.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Pete

What is the sporty AWD competition at 30k new?



So you are saying the only time you should ever get a car faster than a corolla is for track use? The overwhelming majority of sports cars never see the track, ever, yet regular people still enjoy driving them.



1. You are moving the goal posts. At first you said "I see no reason to buy a WRX when the STi exists", but now you are saying "if someone wants to go and do some serious HPDEs". These are not the same thing.

2. You could buy a used WRX just as easily as a used STi. That argument doesn't make much sense to me. The WRX is always going to be the cheaper, slower option than the STi no matter where you buy them (as long as it's the same place).

Also, under normal circumstances, I'd agree about the going with the used market first, just in general...but man, right now it is crazy out there. In fact that is the reason I am planning to get a new car instead. The price delta between a brand new car and a car with 30k miles is almost nothing.




I rounded but yeah basically.
WRX starts at 27.5
STi starts at 37.2
Each one has about 4k in trim options available.

You can take any metric of any car and say the same thing as what is sporty AWD competition for 30k new. *What is sporty, 2dr, RWD, has over 300 hp competition for 30k new.*

I've been talking about the car and it during performance driving the whole time. You're just cherry picking things I am saying in an attempt to create a hole. Stop that. I can do the same and all it'd do is create an endless debate of you didn't say this, or I didn't say that.

My sentiment has not changed, I see no reason to buy the WRX when the STi exists.. and for your clarity, that statement is in regards to track driving, autocross and whatever else you can think of that has to do with driving a car at it's limits, because well, I'm talking about performance.

If I wasn't clear enough before, I hope I am now.

Me saying buy used, does not mean go buy a used STi. It means buy anything used: BRZ, Miata, Civic, WRX, Golf, etc because you can't afford to beat on a new car; a general statement. And yes, logic is kind of out the window right now with the used market. I assume the problem to be much worse in the US vs Canada.

I feel like I'm going to have to explain myself again.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Pete

I have been driving a FWD hatch these past few years and I think that is the primary drawback of this platform. It is competent but rarely fun(for me). From what I have read the civic type r is an amazing FWD car but it is pricey and I've never driven one of those. I admit, I've also never driven anything AWD that is meant to be sporty, but there are plenty of fast cars that have it...like... the 911 turbo lol.

The CTR IS amazing, but the price is a damn hard pill to swallow knowing that for the most part, you won't feel how amazing it is in 96.6333% of driving. I'm a big advocate for it (duh I own one), and would say to anyone on the fence but seriously interested, NOW IS THE TIME.

Otherwise, man what are you doing, just get a GR86.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

You can take any metric of any car and say the same thing as what is sporty AWD competition for 30k new. *What is sporty, 2dr, RWD, has over 300 hp competition for 30k new.*

I've been talking about the car and it during performance driving the whole time. You're just cherry picking things I am saying in an attempt to create a hole. Stop that. I can do the same and all it'd do is create an endless debate of you didn't say this, or I didn't say that.

My sentiment has not changed, I see no reason to buy the WRX when the STi exists.. and for your clarity, that statement is in regards to track driving, autocross and whatever else you can think of that has to do with driving a car at it's limits, because well, I'm talking about performance.

If I wasn't clear enough before, I hope I am now.

Me saying buy used, does not mean go buy a used STi. It means buy anything used: BRZ, Miata, Civic, WRX, Golf, etc because you can't afford to beat on a new car; a general statement. And yes, logic is kind of out the window right now with the used market. I assume the problem to be much worse in the US vs Canada.

I feel like I'm going to have to explain myself again.

The reason people buy the WRX while the STi exists is because it's cheaper, and offers a different level of performance. I get it, you aren't going to agree for whatever reason and that's fine, you do you homie.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Pete

The reason people buy the WRX while the STi exists is because it's cheaper, and offers a different level of performance. I get it, you aren't going to agree for whatever reason and that's fine, you do you homie.

Not everyone needs to agree with everyone! You don't need to try and convince others that your train of thought is more right than another's either.. unless they're straight murdering people or something, that's not cool.

[Ernest72]

You are all missing the point. It’s not about performance, it’s about perceived performance and the experience which leads to fun.

There are likely many cars that would beat my old 04 WRX wagon in any number of performance measurements. But man for 24k back in 2003, I have had over 18 years of fun with that car. Everyone who has ever driven it loves it and guess what it’s a 4EAT. Even my wife who is not a fan because of the louder exhaust, when she drives it twice a year maybe, says she forgets how fast and fun this thing is to drive around town. It just is fun, even if your minivan has better numbers.

So really fun for what you are doing is the key metric and you can have fun it all sorts of shitboxes.

[Blighty]

Nah not cross shopping, though I have idolised WRX's since I was in my 20's. Back then I loved the idea of AWD and loads of HP, and that old subie grumble was such a satisfying sound.

I remember when my friend (who owed one) and I (who owned a 2zz corolla sportivo) went out to warm our cars up after work and do a little spirited drive home, his car had that addictive rumble. So good.

But yeah, I cannot move past the rwd coup design language. I mean I can buy a GR Yaris, but I just know I could not love it long term, I want a playful car that looks sexy, and the yaris isn't that - I'll bore of it. after all the marketing spin, its just another AWD turbo - and there are a lot of those and they are all a bit num.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by dowroa

There seems to be a lot of MSRP price inflation with the `next gens` of cars coming out.

BRZ is now baselining at 30K

Z will be 40K

As a result, in the transition time, I think it is the case you have to look at lightly used cars (while they last) as there some better performance/$$ options out there.

Then again, I have been tracking the prices of BRZs since 2013, and since the pandemic they (and most other things) have trended WAYYYY up.

I used to be able to find PP BRZs, single owner for 23k. Now, no way. Everything like that is 30k. New ones are 33K for the current gen.

At this current time, when I can get a 10k mile STi for 34k and the same mileage BRZ for the same price... the market is chaotic and thus many different strategies right now make a lot of sense.

Yes, inflation is what happens every year. And especially after orange man pumped unnecessary trillions into the economy last year.

If you account for inflation, most cars now are cheaper than they were 25 years ago.

A 300ZX TT was something $45-50k............in 1995 dollars. That's north of $70k now.