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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for! |
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08-22-2021, 09:00 PM | #29 | |
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Adding unnecessary parts will negatively impact reliability. |
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08-22-2021, 09:01 PM | #30 | |
extra what?
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08-22-2021, 09:07 PM | #31 |
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Thing is, OEM setup has already been through 100s of thousands of miles of testing. Installing an unnecessary component is adding risk. For what? Because someone *thinks* that 240F is "better" than 270F for oil that is easily up to well over 300F?
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08-22-2021, 09:43 PM | #32 | |
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08-22-2021, 09:45 PM | #33 | ||
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Once again even the OEM wanted to maintain oil temps inside a tighter window with an oil to water heat exchanger. We use similar heat exchangers all the time in aerospace power generation RnD applications. We use them to bring the power unit up to temp and maintain said temp. Simple. |
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08-22-2021, 10:27 PM | #34 | |
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08-22-2021, 10:44 PM | #35 |
extra what?
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OEM setup is for maximizing profit, meeting emission/efficiency standards, and is warrantied for 60 Kmi. Good for them. I'd rather not have to tear down my engine to replace all the rubber and plastic parts at under 100 Kmi because they were prematurely cooked. That's just one example. I've read your posts in other oil cooler threads and have managed to let it slide until now. No offense intended. I'm not much for internet argument. Please just consider that there are many long-term benefits gained from shedding excess heat. It's not all about oil viscosity.
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08-22-2021, 10:53 PM | #36 | |
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Seeing 270+ is not good for any motor with long-term track use. There’s a reason those temps usually trigger temp warnings/limp mode in most cars… There’s a lot of plastic and rubber gaskets in engines and engine bays today and excess heat on those parts increases wear. We have all gone way off topic of this thread I feel like, but getting back to the main point. If my car was a daily, unless I lived way up north in a colder climate, I’d be still installing my Greddy oil cooler for daily/track use. It’s cheap insurance and keeps temps below 240. Even in 100deg weather on a demanding track like COTA. Plus, it has a thermostatic plate that doesn’t open until the oil is up to a certain temp anyway |
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08-22-2021, 10:59 PM | #37 |
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Thank you, everyone, very much for replying and trying to help out and give their 2 cents. It seems like there isn't an extremely clear conclusion on this topic. I'll definitely continue what all you guys have to see because you all seem significantly more knowledgeable than I am. I just wanted to note that I really do appreciate everyone trying to help out.
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08-22-2021, 11:18 PM | #38 | |
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How it affects long term reliability? Who knows. That's a data set that has far too many confounding variables. The correlation I see is that engines that have oil coolers tend to last longer. There's always outliers of course. |
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08-22-2021, 11:18 PM | #39 | |
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They also added a cooler at the detriment of their margins to the FA24 for a reason. It's not because FA24's have higher oil temps. I kinda do this for OEMs, for a living. |
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08-23-2021, 11:10 AM | #40 | |
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You have 2 school of thoughts on this subject matter and have supporters on both sides arguing their case. I live in a climate where winter is harsh, road salt is used everywhere and -15F temp is not uncommon. Even as a factory car, for your average winter commute, oil temps rarely gets up to full operating temps (190f). I can't imagine a longer oil warm up period. But this is not the same for someone who lives in Florida and are not subjected to the same winter conditions. If my car was a full blown track car, or something that was heavily tracked, or if I was not using my car in the winter, I would then consider adding an oil cooler. But from what I have read on these forums and talking to a few locals, I am not sure if I have seen enough evidence that a causally track driven car (which mine is) will benefit from an oil cooler. To clarify, I am not saying that an oil cooler is not beneficial while you are on the track, but will it bring harm/risks on the remaining 363 days of the year while you are just putting around town? Will these casual track events result in any engine problems for the life of the car? While I agree that high oil temp is not ideal, same can be argued for cold oil temps. Aside from the factory style oil cooler, all other forms of oil cooler does lengthen oil warm up times. OE didn't add an OE style oil cooler just for cooling, they also sped up the heat up times. In fact, does the OE style cooler even do much during track conditions? Our engines are designed to operate in a certain temp range, anything outside is not ideal. You just have to guage what works best for you. I have driven a total of 120 track miles this summer on 2 separate outings. I just changed my 5w-30 oil and plan on sending it in to get an UOA to see how my engine is wearing. If it shows signs of elevated wear, I will reconsider an oil cooler. But that is only because I am now working from home and I no longer need to drive my car in the winter but again, only if my UOA says I need one. Good Luck. Not a fair comparison, the S65 had bearing issues regardless if you have tracked or not. On the flip side, Honda B series, K series, F series and even Mazda BP series can be tracked without coolers and will last the life of the car.
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08-23-2021, 01:19 PM | #41 | |
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...which is why the comparison to the Honda engines, etc is also not a fair comparison. Those engines are able to maintain proper pressure throughout the rev range, something the FA-20 struggles at. Btw - the vast majority of Honda’s I’ve even seen at track have oil coolers, even IF they don’t need it. Wonder why that is. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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08-23-2021, 02:36 PM | #42 | |
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All this to say, I am not disagreeing that lower oil temp/higher oil pressure during track driving is important for engine health. But how much difference does it make for the casual track goer? And to accept all the possible cons associated with one? I am just saying that there is more than "you absolutely cannot track your car without an oil cooler" mentality. You have to look at your own situation and determine if a cooler is suitable for yourself. BTW - I can't be certain the usage case for the Hondas that you have referenced but from my own personal experience, I have casually tracked B and K series engine for a number of years, none had oil coolers and I have never lost an engine. And if you hop onto S2Ki, an oil cooler is not a common mod.
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