Oil Cooler for a DD with track days?

[TommyW]

I'd rather err on cool rather than hot. I believe temps you see are after the oil had gone through the cooler and not what the oil temp is in the engine itself. IAG who's engine I'm using recommends 0-20 Motul in order to keep their warrantee in tact. After my 2 days at Sonoma next week I'm going with the Torco 0-20 now that I'm out of the IAG warrantee period.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I'd rather err on cool rather than hot. I believe temps you see are after the oil had gone through the cooler and not what the oil temp is in the engine itself. IAG who's engine I'm using recommends 0-20 Motul in order to keep their warrantee in tact. After my 2 days at Sonoma next week I'm going with the Torco 0-20 now that I'm out of the IAG warrantee period.

But there are risks associated with installing a cooler beyond just oil running cooler than optimal during DD duty. Leaks are common, engines have even been lost, fires a real possibility..

IMO, for a DD, seeing occasional track usage, running 30wt and not getting too worried about running 270F which is still only 2/3 of the gauge is the way to go...

FWIW here's how one manufacturer has characterized oil temperatures in a factory service manual:
38-60° C (100-140° F) (low)
61-137° C (142-279° F) (normal)
138-146° C (279-295° F) (warm)
147-160° C (297-320° F) (hot)

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ZDan

But there are risks associated with installing a cooler beyond just oil running cooler than optimal during DD duty. Leaks are common, engines have even been lost, fires a real possibility..

IMO, for a DD, seeing occasional track usage, running 30wt and not getting too worried about running 270F which is still only 2/3 of the gauge is the way to go...

FWIW here's how one manufacturer has characterized oil temperatures in a factory service manual:
38-60° C (100-140° F) (low)
61-137° C (142-279° F) (normal)
138-146° C (279-295° F) (warm)
147-160° C (297-320° F) (hot)

Well, I use a proven cooler, installed by a top notch FA20 mechanic and listen to my engine builder, thanks though.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Well, I'll use a proven cooler, installed by a top notch FA20 mechanic and listen to my engine builder, thanks though.

I would still periodically examine the components for leaks. Anything aftermarket means it hasn't gone through OEM reliability tests.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ayau

I would still periodically examine the components for leaks. Anything aftermarket means it hasn't gone through OEM reliability tests.

Car is serviced after every day on the track and I trust some of the high quality aftermarket parts more than OEM.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Car is serviced after every day on the track and I trust some of the high quality aftermarket parts more than OEM.

I don't... OEMs are cheap, but they have to ensure everything stays tight for 10s of thousands of cars for 10s of thousands of miles. They have their systems in place to ensure no leaky, including 100s of thousands of test miles.
Also worth noting that parts and lines that don't exist, can't leak!

If I were endurance racing, I *might* run an oil cooler, but for DD and track days with 20-minute sessions, for me, the risks outweigh the supposed benefits. Even with expert installation. And you can be sure that most people who install themselves or have a local shop do the install, do not have an expert installation...

My 0.02!

[PulsarBeeerz]

What oil coolers are you guys using that commonly leak? When installed correctly there really isn't much to go wrong...I've made hoses for heat exchanges and done various oil plumbing installs for lube and scavenge systems at work. I will agree that you introduce a potential point of failure, mostly in the install. But, commonly leak? That is a stretch.

[itschris]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't... OEMs are cheap, but they have to ensure everything stays tight for 10s of thousands of cars for 10s of thousands of miles. They have their systems in place to ensure no leaky, including 100s of thousands of test miles.
Also worth noting that parts and lines that don't exist, can't leak!

If I were endurance racing, I *might* run an oil cooler, but for DD and track days with 20-minute sessions, for me, the risks outweigh the supposed benefits. Even with expert installation. And you can be sure that most people who install themselves or have a local shop do the install, do not have an expert installation...

My 0.02!

Yeah... I run one, but checking for leaks every fill up gets old after a while. I don't think you can overstate the difference that makes on a daily driven car. I think about once every 3 months I see a post in one of the ft86 facebook groups about a catastrophic oil cooler failure. Most of these owners have never checked for leaks post installation, so it's difficult to know if the failure is sudden or there was warning.

To your other point, I don't think that excessive oil temperature alone is the primary reason for an oil cooler. Modern oils can obviously handle much higher temps than our cars ever reach. But excessive oil temperature does lead to higher bearing temperature, and the tensile strength of most bearing material drops rapidly through operating temperatures. This reduces the bearing's ability to resist damage when we inevitability have moments of boundary lubrication during knock events, particulate matter in the oil, or periods of high oscillatory pressure (balance issues, higher rev limit). I have a suspicion that later cars were better balanced...

The other consideration is that there are posts here where people have reported oil pressure flatlining in the higher rpm range, supposedly due to cavitation. At the same viscosity (heavier oil vs lighter oil + cooler), I think that in theory the cooler (lighter) oil should be less likely to cavitate. I don't have any data, but it would be cool to see this measured.

Definitely hard to weigh the tradeoffs when we don't have all the data OEMs do.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't... OEMs are cheap, but they have to ensure everything stays tight for 10s of thousands of cars for 10s of thousands of miles. They have their systems in place to ensure no leaky, including 100s of thousands of test miles.
Also worth noting that parts and lines that don't exist, can't leak!

If I were endurance racing, I *might* run an oil cooler, but for DD and track days with 20-minute sessions, for me, the risks outweigh the supposed benefits. Even with expert installation. And you can be sure that most people who install themselves or have a local shop do the install, do not have an expert installation...

My 0.02!

You do you

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by itschris

Definitely hard to weigh the tradeoffs when we don't have all the data OEMs do.

FWIW even the OEM has installed an oil cooler/regulator as standard on the 2nd gen 86/BRZ..

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

FWIW even the OEM has installed an oil cooler/regulator as standard on the 2nd gen 86/BRZ..

Smart.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

You do you

Of course! But don't kid yourself that recommending an aftermarket oil cooler install is generally a good idea for most of the community...

I studied this long and hard when I bought my car, and despite my preconceived notions came to the conclusion that an oil cooler install was a bad idea for me and my usage.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

FWIW even the OEM has installed an oil cooler/regulator as standard on the 2nd gen 86/BRZ..

Yup, gets oil up to temp quicker. Unlike an aftermarket oil cooler with which oil may *never* get up to temp....

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't... OEMs are cheap, but they have to ensure everything stays tight for 10s of thousands of cars for 10s of thousands of miles. They have their systems in place to ensure no leaky, including 100s of thousands of test miles.
Also worth noting that parts and lines that don't exist, can't leak!

If I were endurance racing, I *might* run an oil cooler, but for DD and track days with 20-minute sessions, for me, the risks outweigh the supposed benefits. Even with expert installation. And you can be sure that most people who install themselves or have a local shop do the install, do not have an expert installation...

My 0.02!

Quite the contrary. Having worked/working for OEMs, I can tell you that most cars are made for the 99%, and the 99% in this case, are not tracking the car.

It's cheaper for them to just fight the fight and deny claims than to use a superior part that only a miniscule fraction of users *might* need.

Planned obsolescence, and maximizing profit.