New BRZ vs Z

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

Not sure if its already mentioned but the new Z will be using the VG30DDTT (smaller brother of the GT-R) which already has a long history of reliability making 400HP stock on current Q50/Q60s as well as 450 on just sw tunes. So the engine has that going for it. Even if they detune it for the 35K models your potential is really high without buying any expensive bolt-on HW

That makes a new Z sound VERY tempting. I’ve always wanted a Z car so this might be the time. I’m pretty sure the next one, or even within the 400Z’s lifetime, it will become electric.


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[Lelandjt]

Honestly, the if the Z is a hatchback (it seems to be) that alone will probably make me overlook its weight and buy it over the BRZ. I put an airline bike bag in my Mazda 3 hatchback the other day and thought about the fact that the BRZ's trunk opening wouldn't allow that. It's a shame the rear glass doesn't lift up with the trunk lid on the twins. I guess that's done to put a beam between the shock towers for more stiffness?

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Honestly, the if the Z is a hatchback (it seems to be) that alone will probably make me overlook its weight and buy it over the BRZ. I put an airline bike bag in my Mazda 3 hatchback the other day and thought about the fact that the BRZ's trunk opening wouldn't allow that. It's a shame the rear glass doesn't lift up with the trunk lid on the twins. I guess that's done to put a beam between the shock towers for more stiffness?

It’s a sports car, not a hot hatch. Get a golf R. I agree it’s fun to have both but there will always be compromises. That’s why I still have my 04 WRX wagon. Still a blast in the twisties but has the ability to haul stuff, like my mountain bikes, kayaks, even an 11ft John boat once. Once had a 6ft blue spruce hanging out the back. The BRZ will never be that car. Don’t think the Z will be either.

[SockMonkey]

Originally Posted by JesseG

That makes a new Z sound VERY tempting. I’ve always wanted a Z car so this might be the time. I’m pretty sure the next one, or even within the 400Z’s lifetime, it will become electric.


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There will be no $35k option, detuned or not, most recent articles I've seen say it will start over $40k, many publications saying mid-$40k. Which is much more realistic.

[JesseG]

Yeah the twins can’t compete against a hatch when it comes to utility, BUT they are very easy to live with every day if you don’t have more than one passenger. The trunk opening is the limiting factor, like with smaller sedans. The benefit of the 86/BRZ is added stiffness. Hatchbacks will have more body flex, there isn’t any way around it.
The 300/350/370Z’s have always had decent cargo space because of the liftback design. It’s a shallow space so taller items won’t fit though.


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by SockMonkey

There will be no $35k option, detuned or not, most recent articles I've seen say it will start over $40k, many publications saying mid-$40k. Which is much more realistic.

That may be the deciding factor, will it be worth the price premium over the 2nd gen twins. Which is a platform I already know and love. I think the 400Z will compete more directly with the Supra 3.0, Camaro (LT or SS?), and Mustang GT. Comparing the Supra and Z against the American cars is strange because I6 or V6 against I4 and V8. Some things never change, I remember it being the same way in the 90’s and early 2000’s.


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[SockMonkey]

Originally Posted by JesseG

That may be the deciding factor, will it be worth the price premium over the 2nd gen twins. Which is a platform I already know and love. I think the 400Z will compete more directly with the Supra 3.0, Camaro (LT or SS?), and Mustang GT. Comparing the Supra and Z against the American cars is strange because I6 or V6 against I4 and V8. Some things never change, I remember it being the same way in the 90’s and early 2000’s.


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Yeah, that's exactly what I imagine it will compete with. If they do something similar to the Q series, the Q60s puts down like ~275-300whp and start in the low 40s and the Q60 Red Sport 400 puts down like ~375whp. I'm guessing the base model Z starts in the low to mid 40s with that same 275-300 and there will be a performance option with the 375. And just like the RS400, it will have things like the bigger heat exchanger, optical RPM sensors on the turbos, brakes, etc. etc. And that will likely be over the $50k mark. (q60 RS400 starts close to $60k).

[~el~jefe~]

With Biden in office, one has to consider gas going to five dollars or more per gallon for non crap gas. NOrmally, i would not care about gasoline, but the BRZ had mid to higher 30's mpg on long distance and local was very good for its fun factor. The savings would be easily $70 a month for an BRZ/gt86 if we maintain the current administration in the USA. 400hp Nissan is going to be terrible on gas. BRZ was a 0 dollar repair bill car for me and gas was reasonable. Insurance was the highest of the sporty cars in its group.



my 2019 MX-5 RF mazda is the cheapest by $48 dollars per month for insurance, maybe $54 it seems. Price of car is nothing if the car doesnt break and uses no gas and insurance is low.

Nissan's are built like shit for 10+ years. Only the ancient 370Z with manual shift was a decent machine, as it was from 20 years ago the design and engineering.

There really is not a competitor to the BRZ/GT86. if you dont care about back passengers, the RF MX-5 is the only one. "Hot hatches" are FWD or AWD.... ew x3000.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

It’s a sports car, not a hot hatch. Get a golf R. I agree it’s fun to have both but there will always be compromises. That’s why I still have my 04 WRX wagon. Still a blast in the twisties but has the ability to haul stuff, like my mountain bikes, kayaks, even an 11ft John boat once. Once had a 6ft blue spruce hanging out the back. The BRZ will never be that car. Don’t think the Z will be either.

The Z isn't a hatchback as you're thinking of them, taller and designed for cargo capacity, but the current one and I think the new one are hatchbacks in that the glass raises with the trunk lid. You're not gonna put the same things in it as my Mazda 3 or your WRX but I suspect it can swallow things the twins can't, like a bike with the wheels off or a bike case. I have a Transit van for big stuff but a sports car that can fit a bike or the luggage I need to take to the airport will get a lot more use than one that can't.
Why a RWD "hot hatch" has never existed is a mystery to me. The closest thing is a generation or two of BMW 3 wagons but those are a touch big and heavy and only offered mildly powerful NA6 engines, rather than the turbo 4s I prefer. My 2012 Mazda 3 hatch is the same weight as the twins. If it had RWD I wouldn't be looking to replace it.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

Why a RWD "hot hatch" has never existed is a mystery to me.

*ahem* Twin Turbo 3L I6 RWD manual hot hatch:




And to add to the Z discussion; the Z may be a hatchback, but the cargo area is absolutely pitiful because you can’t fold the seats down, the trunk is very shallow, and the strut brace is in the way. The Twins may only have ~the same volume in the trunk, but it’s more useable because there’s more depth, and you can fold the seats down to quadruple the trunk space.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

this is the rwd hatchback:





i never should have sold it!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

but I suspect it can swallow things the twins can't, like a bike with the wheels off or a bike case.

29” wheels



Two bikes

[~el~jefe~]

if you get into an accident with a car that has no sealed trunk, you get decapitated.


fun! ways to win!


Nothing should be behind you in a car that isnt secured and sealed off. yes i know that negates like 20% of the cars sold in 2021, and it should. it is a pretty major reason for disfigurement and death. BRZ, my MX-5 RF, all have sealed trunks and stop stuff from decapitating me.


the only way i would not mind being decapitated is if some woman has sex with me and then tears my head off afterwards. However, I am praying mantis, and that is just how we roll.


400 Z would be my next car for certain if it just had a way to secure that crap.


I passed the new Supra as it can't secure things either, from how it appears in the photo.



I am going to stop typing and catch some flies. later.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

this is the rwd hatchback:





i never should have sold it!

How do I keep forgetting about the clownshoe!