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05-20-2021, 10:37 PM | #15 |
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Thanks, but I went with Eibach, a never-used set for reasonable $$$ found me Looking forward to Palmer, must exact revenge on evil Miata...
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05-21-2021, 08:24 AM | #16 | |
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Kyle H. - #89 STX
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The Following User Says Thank You to M0nk3y For This Useful Post: | strat61caster (05-21-2021) |
05-21-2021, 09:19 AM | #17 | |
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What you desire (presumably): Finer control of how the outside front loads up vs. outside rear during cornering to provide finer control of handling balance What splitting holes will do: Induce asymmetric loading/unloading of outside front vs. outside rear in left-handers vs. right-handers (defeating your original purpose of having finer control of this). While you will have "adjusted" the *average* roll stiffness at that end of the car by the desired finer increment, you also create a situation where the outside front is effectively stiffer for turns in one direction than the opposite outside front is for turns in the other direction. On *average*, you've achieved what you want. But it's going to give you a bigger difference in the desired direction for turns in the one direction, and a smaller difference or even a difference in the undesired direction for turns in the opposite direction. In addition, you create imbalanced L/R loading at both the front and rear under braking and acceleration, even in a straight line. Straight-line braking will now additionally load up one of the fronts more than the other, and further unload the same-side rear by the same amount. If you *specifically* want to change under/oversteer behavior differently for left- vs. right-handers, and have no other mechanism to do this, *maybe*? But that would be better addressed by weight-jacking via individual ride height adjustments to get imbalanced corner weights. |
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05-21-2021, 02:47 PM | #18 | |
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Kyle H. - #89 STX
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05-21-2021, 03:15 PM | #19 | |
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05-21-2021, 03:39 PM | #20 | |
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got it. i'll make sure he's aware of it.....
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Kyle H. - #89 STX
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05-22-2021, 01:11 PM | #21 |
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OK, because these things stick with me until resolved, my further thoughts follow
TL/DR: splitting swaybar stiffness setting left/right *is not as bad as I had thought*, and shouldn't muck with corner weights much if at all, but still does induce asymmetric responses in the suspension/chassis and still kinda gross IMO... With asymmetric swaybar setting, you do get different force reactions at the endlinks, and you do get torsion in the bar under straightline braking (or acceleration). However these asymmetric forces are reacted into the chassis at the pivot mounts to the chassis. So you're not (I don't think) weight-jacking *on net* (I don't think...). However, you *are* putting some twist in the bar under pure straight-line braking, and different forces are being reacted through the springs vs. sway bar left vs. right side. Example: Say you have 1000 lb. vertical force at each front tire under straight-line braking, 2" suspension compression. With a split setup, arm lengths differing by 10%, you're enforcing a ~0.2" different displacement at the endlinks. Say it's a 500 lb/in bar on the stiff side, 450 lb/in on soft side, that's 100 lb. acting UP on one end of the bar and 90 lb. acting *down* on the other. The 100 lb. upload on the swaybar at the one end is reacted with a 100 lb. download at the bushing/pivot on that side. 90 lb. download at other end reacted with 90 lb. upload at bushing/pivot on that side. So on one side the spring is seeing ~1100 lb. compression, vs. other side at ~910 lb. Kinda goof-ass if you ask me... But probably not the end of the world either. Still think there will be some residual difference in handling through left-handers vs. right-handers due to different stiffnesses/compliances through the different paths (spring path vs. swaybar path), but whatevs... Whew... For me, not worth it to induce asymmetric L/R behavior in the suspension to gain fine-tuning of dubious benefit on a softly-sprung, no-downforce, lightly-modded production car... Optimal setup should be relatively insensitive to small changes anyway. Any time I've been in a position where I've *needed* to change F/R balance with sways, a BIG change has been required, much bigger than increments in an adjustable bar. More like removing one bar entirely or replacing a stiff aftermarket bar with much softer factory bar at one end. Anyway, carry on as thou desireth! |
05-22-2021, 05:45 PM | #22 | |
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05-22-2021, 05:53 PM | #23 |
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Normally, with the end links in the same adjustment holes on both sides, yes. But in the case of split stiffness settings, forces are induced in the bar and reacted at the pivot bushings. Because as the chassis dives , if you have one end of the sway bar with a 9" lever arm and 10" lever arm on the other side, loads will be induced in the swaybar and endlinks.
Last edited by ZDan; 05-22-2021 at 06:09 PM. |
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05-23-2021, 06:08 AM | #24 |
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I see it now, thanks.
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05-23-2021, 08:12 AM | #25 |
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Hmm, it now occurs to me that *if* the car is to remain left/right even under straight-line braking, then the left/right front spring forces *must* be equal. But with asymmetric swaybar stiffness settings, there *will* be asymmetric loading in the sway bar (short lever end sees compression in end-link, long-lever end sees tension) with equal L/R suspension compression. The only conclusion is that asymmetric swaybar settings must lead to non-uniform front suspension loading under straight-line braking, i.e. dynamic weight-jacking. I think I'll have to build a 3D sim to quantify it though...
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06-15-2021, 04:51 PM | #26 |
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06-15-2021, 06:42 PM | #27 |
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Hellzyeh! Gonna be a tall order vs. Miatae on Hoosiers tho, Paul G just got a set of R7s and David W is on them as well...
50/50 Miatas with double-wishbone suspension have 2.5/5.0/7.5 "performance adjustment points" for NA-NB/NC/ND. But nose-heavy 55/45 FT86s with strut front suspension get 7.5 non-Brembo, and 9.0 with Brembos! Thass some b.s. right there, shenanigans! |
06-16-2021, 02:50 PM | #28 | |
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