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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe |
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05-14-2021, 12:57 PM | #29 | ||
Only happy when it rains.
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05-14-2021, 01:30 PM | #30 |
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and I remember the original 86 launch docs said the LFA & 360 had a lower CoG and they used V configs..perhaps not the best cars to compare to a twin lol. perhaps for cheaper applications boxer is easiest way to achieve low CoG.
but idk CoG is cool but also a bit overrated IMO..thought experiment, hypothetically you could take say a higher riding sports car and put slabs of metal underneath the car to make it have a "better" CoG than the twins, doesn't mean much then right? |
05-14-2021, 01:50 PM | #31 |
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Car and Driver says that Toyota's claim isn't true.
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05-14-2021, 02:06 PM | #32 | |
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Even with a tall upright I-4 (mounted low), the twins would probably be no higher (I'd bet lower) than 18.5" c.g. height. Frankly the flat-4 has a bigger negative in FR application due to the engine having to sit quite far forward for steering shaft clearance. 18.1" c.g. height is great, but 55/45 is kinda crap, again I'd rather have 18.5" c.g. height with more rearward f/r distribution. |
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05-14-2021, 02:33 PM | #33 | |
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Yes, the cars have a low cog. No, it's not specifically because of the Boxer engine. |
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05-14-2021, 06:09 PM | #34 |
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Plug and play. No radiator required
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05-15-2021, 01:29 AM | #35 |
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It has been discussed here. I won't open the same topic again.
In general my feeling is that some people are really not happy that Toyota went with a Subaru engine. Then they will just throw whatever kind of arguments and hypothetical facts, no matter the reasoning and what real facts indicate. It is what it is. |
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05-15-2021, 08:13 AM | #36 | |
Only happy when it rains.
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05-15-2021, 10:06 AM | #37 | |
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Having done vehicle design and layout, I have opinions about flat/opposed engine architecture in cars (and motorcycles!) based on facts. It's not the end of the world, but there *are* tradeoffs, and the "low-c.g." argument is usually tremendously overstated. Yes, it is beneficial that the cylinder heads are low. But it hurts that the bottom-end, harmonic balancer, flywheel, clutch, and the front of transmission are mounted *high*. I would bet there *is* a slight net benefit vs. a lower-mounted upright inline-4, but I bet it's near enough a wash vs. DOHC V4, which would be *my* choice for a small lightweight sports car. I'd actually bet on the V4 having a slight advantage but there wouldn't be much in it either way. Indeed, it is what it is! I love the car and generally have few complaints. My 1st one being that I wish it were a shorter-wheelbase cab-rearward 2-seater, which would fix the F/R weight distribution. 2nd is engine architecture, again I'd prefer a V4 but ain't no automakers doing that anyway, but Subaru would be well qualified to develop one! Inline-4 *would* be able to sit lower and further aft vs. the flat-4, somewhat addressing the F/R distribution without tremendously impacting c.g. height. Last edited by ZDan; 05-15-2021 at 10:51 AM. |
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05-15-2021, 01:31 PM | #38 |
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Torque dip is almost gone in new engine and I've heard people saying it sounds better too. No?
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05-16-2021, 02:54 AM | #39 |
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Subaru was dogmatic for years even on moving to a direct injection engine design. They are not that flexible to changes and sometimes it is for the best, because it gives them time to improve things gradually year by year up to perfection. This situation is changing lately for them, by working more closely with Toyota, but there are still old voices within the company. You also mentioned several times about the F/R distribution issue. Don't want to go off topic here, but STI had a different suspension setup on their JDM tS cars (the ones with the STI Bilstein suspension) with softer rear springs that transfer more weight to the rear. There are different ways to *fix* issues and although might not seem optimal, they still give them an option to not ruin the vehicle's practicality (i.e. being a 2+2 seater).
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05-16-2021, 09:56 AM | #40 | |||
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"Fixes" mean big compromises, the best "fix" is to improve the weight distribution to something more reasonable for an FR sports car. 55/45 is garbage. Even V8 nose-heavy Mustangs and Camaros do better... 50/50 would greatly reduce load on the outside front during cornering and give more total lateral grip. It'd also improve braking performance. In addition to being able to put the power down better. Faster! Last edited by ZDan; 05-16-2021 at 11:39 AM. |
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05-16-2021, 10:31 AM | #41 | |||
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Subaru have their expertise on building boxer engines and it is what is. They don't have the capacity having different engine designs. I am mentioning it again that they even had a big trouble moving into direct injection! Something that looks a "fix" for you, could mean a (financial) disaster for them. |
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05-16-2021, 12:41 PM | #42 | |||||
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Forward weight distribution means the outside front is doing way more than it's fair share during cornering, so you're losing grip there. Could try to correct for that with more rear roll stiffness, but before long you'll overcome the Torsen diff's ability to deliver power to both rears, so kind of a dead-end. Even with a good ramp-type clutch diff, you're only going to be able to put so much power down on corner exit. This is already a minor issue even at stock 205hp. Forward weight distribution in an FR performance car is bad for: 1. braking: fronts are relatively overloaded with ~75% of the load and rears underutilized carrying only 25% 2. cornering: outside front overloaded, way beyond the linear portion of the grip/load curve, while outside rear is underutilized again 3. accelerating: less load on the driven rear wheels = less drive grip. Quote:
Last edited by ZDan; 05-16-2021 at 12:54 PM. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post: | timurrrr (05-17-2021) |
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