Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[p1l0t]

I'm not anti-science, I actually think that science hasn't really had its chance yet. In 20-30 years from now, when I am actually at real risk for this, there will be plenty of data on whether or not I should try an mRNA vaccine.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by cjd

I'm surprised (a little) someone whose job involves stepping into lots of random homes is reluctant.

I carry my vaccine card in my wallet because I expect there will come a time they'll be restricted access somewhere based on it. That's a fight I'm getting the lawn chair and some popcorn out for.

I'm learning a lot of it has come from where they get their 'trusted' info from. The majority of them are heavily involved in facebook, so echo chambers and all, all they really see/hear about is the fringe cases with side effects, and don't get updates on the good it's doing. There's a small minority of workers that get their info from other sources that still refuse for various reasons, many similar to why they don't normally get a flu shot. Which I don't normally do either. The last shot I got before this was a tetanus booster about 7ish years ago... I don't normally do shots..

[cjd]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

In 20-30 years from now, when I am actually at real risk for this

At the moment, this is speculation; there is plenty of evidence suggesting you ARE at real risk, but of course you might not be after all. And we don't know the long term impact at scale (millions, billions) for either (we DO know the long term [lack of] side effect of mRNA vaccines, but in very low numbers). But long term Covid side effects are shaping up to be worse and worse...
If you were holing up waiting for things to settle your line of reasoning would hold up, but you're not. Sure, you can pick out details which are "science" to back up your approach, but the pieces don't hold together.

Originally Posted by soundman98

I carry my vaccine card in my wallet because I expect there will come a time they'll be restricted access somewhere based on it. That's a fight I'm getting the lawn chair and some popcorn out for.

I'm learning a lot of it has come from where they get their 'trusted' info from. The majority of them are heavily involved in facebook, so echo chambers and all, all they really see/hear about is the fringe cases with side effects, and don't get updates on the good it's doing. There's a small minority of workers that get their info from other sources that still refuse for various reasons, many similar to why they don't normally get a flu shot. Which I don't normally do either. The last shot I got before this was a tetanus booster about 7ish years ago... I don't normally do shots..

Tetanus shots are miserable. Tetanus is SO much worse. I've been glad I keep up with that one. STUPID moves on my part. Index finger injury end of December (sliced through basically all the skin layers... super sharp knife, ~1/4" round scar) I even had a major trauma response; woke the next morning with debilitating headache, swinging from chills to fever, every joint in my body in major pain, couldn't even keep water down. Around 1pm it started to lift, by 3pm I felt fine. I've also bumped the table saw blade, occasional other slips with chisels etc. Stupid stuff.


Are there clients requiring vaccine at this point? I know we've been waiting to get some things done. The gas co. needs to replace the meter, they're threatening to shut off service now! wtf... first notice was in Jan. I'm hoping we can do that without them needing to go all the way upstairs to the HVAC in the attic but we'll see. Basement has a door right next to the HVAC/water heater. Grill with hard-line outside. Maybe that'll be enough. But people that don't care won't think twice about having you run around in their house even if they're shedding (hopefully not if they KNOW they are, but I bet they still would for some things).

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by cjd

Are there clients requiring vaccine at this point? I know we've been waiting to get some things done. The gas co. needs to replace the meter, they're threatening to shut off service now! wtf... first notice was in Jan. I'm hoping we can do that without them needing to go all the way upstairs to the HVAC in the attic but we'll see. Basement has a door right next to the HVAC/water heater. Grill with hard-line outside. Maybe that'll be enough. But people that don't care won't think twice about having you run around in their house even if they're shedding (hopefully not if they KNOW they are, but I bet they still would for some things).

Not much right now. Had one house where they required masks, shoe coverings, and gloves to protect their 1 year old.. but with people of extreme opinions on both sides, I figure it's only a matter of time.

Nicor should be able to do all of the replacement of the meter only. Only reason they'd need to get to the appliances would be to relight the pilot lights if they're of that vintage, should be able to cite ' reasons' for them not to though, and just do it yourself.

[Irace86.2.0]

Indian hospitals turn away patients in COVID-19 'tsunami'

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2CB053

Overwhelmed hospitals in India begged for oxygen supplies on Saturday as the country’s coronavirus infections soared again overnight in a “tsunami” of disease, setting a new world record for cases for the third consecutive day.

Max Healthcare, which runs a network of hospitals in north India, tweeted that it had less than two hours of oxygen left while Fortis Healthcare, another big chain, said it was suspending new admissions in Delhi.

“We are running on backup, waiting for supplies since morning,” Fortis said.

India is in the grip of a rampaging second wave of the pandemic, hitting a rate of one COVID-19 death in just under every four minutes in Delhi as the capital’s underfunded health system buckles.

The government has deployed military planes and trains to get oxygen to Delhi from the far corners of the country and overseas including Singapore.

The number of cases across the country of around 1.3 billion rose overnight by 346,786, the Health Ministry said, for a total of 16.6 million cases, including 189,544 deaths.

COVID-19 deaths rose by 2,624 over the past 24 hours, the highest daily rate for the country so far. Crematoriums across Delhi said they were full up and asked grieving families to wait.

Hospitals in Delhi have gone to the city’s high court this week seeking it to order the state and federal governments to make emergency arrangements for medical supplies, mainly oxygen.

“It’s a tsunami. How are we trying to build capacity?” the Delhi high court asked the state and federal governments in response to this plea.

Television showed families tending to the sick in hospital corridors and streets as they waited for medical attention.

One man identified as Amit who was grieving for his brother at Delhi’s Jaipur Golden hospital said he had seen families running around with oxygen cylinders trying to get them refilled.

“You can’t leave me in the lurch,” a lawyer appearing for the Jaipur Golden hospital told the high court on Saturday, seeking its intervention.

The court asked the government to ensure supplies, as well to make security arrangements for medical centres amid people’s desperation.

“We know how people react, let’s not have a law and order situation,” the court said in its direction to the authorities.

India surpassed the U.S. record of 297,430 single-day infections anywhere in the world on Thursday, making it the global epicentre of a pandemic that is waning in many other countries.

WINTER EASING

The federal government had declared it had beaten back the coronavirus in February.

Health experts said India became complacent in the winter, when new cases were running at about 10,000 a day and seemed to be under control. Authorities lifted restrictions, allowing for the resumption of big gatherings.

Others said that it could also be a more dangerous variant of the virus coursing through India. It is the world’s second most populous country and people live in close proximity, often six to a room.

“While complacency in adhering to masks and physical distancing might have played a role, it seems increasingly likely that this second wave has been fuelled by a much more virulent strain,” wrote Vikram Patel, Professor of Global Health at Harvard Medical School, in the Indian Express.

Experts say the only way India can turn the tide is to ramp up vaccinations and impose strict lockdowns in the so-called red zones of high infection. It has opened up the immunisation programme to all adults but faces a shortage.

India is currently using the AstraZeneca shot and homegrown Covaxin. It has also approved Russia’s Sputnik V and has urged Pfizer Moderna and Johnson and Johnson to provide it with vaccines.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by cjd

Tetanus shots are miserable. Tetanus is SO much worse. I've been glad I keep up with that one. STUPID moves on my part. Index finger injury end of December (sliced through basically all the skin layers... super sharp knife, ~1/4" round scar) I even had a major trauma response; woke the next morning with debilitating headache, swinging from chills to fever, every joint in my body in major pain, couldn't even keep water down. Around 1pm it started to lift, by 3pm I felt fine. I've also bumped the table saw blade, occasional other slips with chisels etc. Stupid stuff.

Interesting. I had an emergency room visit about six or so years ago and had a tetanus shot but don’t remember those side effects.

I had to get it though because I had severed the tendon in my index finger on the sharp edge of a top of a can.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by soundman98

you know, this is the exact problem that echo chambers have.

if pilot doesn't want to get vaccinated, that is his right and his choice, as it is the right of my boss, and a number other people i work with.

once you forget to respect others rights, regardless of who's side is correct, everyone's already lost.


enough reason, i want some fun yet. has anyone gotten a well-thought-out answer to how following the government mandate is being like sheep? i haven't gotten more than a shrug and 'whatever'. i'm really curious about it though.

I agree with you to a point. But I would argue that what some call "rights" are not rights at all. That exercising these "rights" is little more than licentious, anti social behavior. Smoking in enclosed spaces, firearms possession/carrying wherever a person wants, enrolling one's unvaccinated kids in public schools - some people claim these as "rights" but that's nonsense.

Doing whatever you want or not doing what you don't want, in a vacuum has no impact on anyone else. That's not where we live. People have a curious habit of converting their preferences into rights and then demanding that they be met. Are there "certain unalienable rights?" What those are is a matter of conjecture. Sure, patrons of businesses have a right to be able to patronize that establishment without being required to risk their lives doing so. If business owners decline to do that, patrons can and will vote with their feet. Business owners have a right to demand that their patrons engage in certain practices (such as mask wearing and vaccination confirmation) and refrain from engaging in others (inappropriate attire, carrying weapons into the facility).

Business owners also have the right to set conditions for employment that employees must meet. One of those could and should be vaccination against covid. That is certainly what I would do. You can choose not to vax if you wish, but you can look for a job elsewhere.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by JD001

Who doesn't like 'league' tables...

Sure looks like herd immunity is happening with or without me. Probably by the end of the year.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[cjd]

Originally Posted by spike021

Interesting. I had an emergency room visit about six or so years ago and had a tetanus shot but don’t remember those side effects.

I had to get it though because I had severed the tendon in my index finger on the sharp edge of a top of a can.

Oh, no. Those side effects were from the injury.


The shot just hurts for a few days.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by soundman98

I carry my vaccine card in my wallet because I expect there will come a time they'll be restricted access somewhere based on it. That's a fight I'm getting the lawn chair and some popcorn out for.

I'm learning a lot of it has come from where they get their 'trusted' info from. The majority of them are heavily involved in facebook, so echo chambers and all, all they really see/hear about is the fringe cases with side effects, and don't get updates on the good it's doing. There's a small minority of workers that get their info from other sources that still refuse for various reasons, many similar to why they don't normally get a flu shot. Which I don't normally do either. The last shot I got before this was a tetanus booster about 7ish years ago... I don't normally do shots..

I certainly hope to see access to certain locations and occupations restricted. I do not have a right to freely enter any place I wish. The problem with the 'echo chambers' is that they are often echoing rubbish. There is no support for the concern because the rumored events did not happen. It is much easier to make up a lie than it is to stamp it out.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by soundman98

Not much right now. Had one house where they required masks, shoe coverings, and gloves to protect their 1 year old.. but with people of extreme opinions on both sides, I figure it's only a matter of time.

Nicor should be able to do all of the replacement of the meter only. Only reason they'd need to get to the appliances would be to relight the pilot lights if they're of that vintage, should be able to cite ' reasons' for them not to though, and just do it yourself.

I mean, asking for masks because 1yr old seems pretty damn reasonable to me, especially if they let you know before you are sent out. But I don't mind wearing a mask either... hours on end in the woodshop, even cleaning the house when I'm using a surface spray. No fun breathing those.
ComEd in this case, and I'm hopeful they can just do a spot check at the grill; if they really want to come inside, maybe just the basement. I guess air in the lines is the most likely potential issue, but that seems pretty unlikely... we'll see. Needs doing and we're both vaccinated now, so rolling with it. Should be able pop windows open and get some airflow. I'd still rather not go into hundreds of home were I doing the work, so...

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

I agree with you to a point. But I would argue that what some call "rights" are not rights at all. That exercising these "rights" is little more than licentious, anti social behavior. Smoking in enclosed spaces, firearms possession/carrying wherever a person wants, enrolling one's unvaccinated kids in public schools - some people claim these as "rights" but that's nonsense.

Doing whatever you want or not doing what you don't want, in a vacuum has no impact on anyone else. That's not where we live. People have a curious habit of converting their preferences into rights and then demanding that they be met. Are there "certain unalienable rights?" What those are is a matter of conjecture. Sure, patrons of businesses have a right to be able to patronize that establishment without being required to risk their lives doing so. If business owners decline to do that, patrons can and will vote with their feet. Business owners have a right to demand that their patrons engage in certain practices (such as mask wearing and vaccination confirmation) and refrain from engaging in others (inappropriate attire, carrying weapons into the facility).

Business owners also have the right to set conditions for employment that employees must meet. One of those could and should be vaccination against covid. That is certainly what I would do. You can choose not to vax if you wish, but you can look for a job elsewhere.

yep. and as i told one of my coworkers who reminded me he has the right to not get the vaccine as we were driving down the highway and i was attempting to convince him to go with me to the newly opened drive through vaccine location:
"as the driver of this van, i have the right to drive into oncoming traffic."

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

I certainly hope to see access to certain locations and occupations restricted. I do not have a right to freely enter any place I wish. The problem with the 'echo chambers' is that they are often echoing rubbish. There is no support for the concern because the rumored events did not happen. It is much easier to make up a lie than it is to stamp it out.

Originally Posted by soundman98

yep. and as i told one of my coworkers who reminded me he has the right to not get the vaccine as we were driving down the highway and i was attempting to convince him to go with me to the newly opened drive through vaccine location:
"as the driver of this van, i have the right to drive into oncoming traffic."

I recommend a bridge abutment, far less collateral damage. But only if you have an ejection seat.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

I certainly hope to see access to certain locations and occupations restricted. I do not have a right to freely enter any place I wish. The problem with the 'echo chambers' is that they are often echoing rubbish. There is no support for the concern because the rumored events did not happen. It is much easier to make up a lie than it is to stamp it out.

These days there are a lot of places that absolutely don’t allow smoking (some people sneak around it but it’s still a restriction).

I’d imagine the same should happen with the vax.

Smokers decide to smoke, that’s fine. It’s their body and they have the freedom to do whatever they wish. But they shouldn’t be allowed in enclosed spaces near people who don’t wish to inhale second-hand smoke, first as a nuisance but secondly and most importantly as a health hazard.

It’s a very similar analogy to vaxxing up/COVID imo.