TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

@ZDan : Did you not have an accident with your current car? If you 're not happy with the fix or have second-thoughts, then you are free to change it.

Looks good as new now

Just don't try to convince everyone else that suddenly factory solved all the problems or that they'll solve them easily in a performance package option. It is not that simple and I believe you know it already.

It is that simple. FWIW I have 15 years in the industry and have worked directly with Sachs. The geometrical space is there in the FT86 for longer-travel front suspension, not a problem. Also if they decide to specify reduced high-speed compression damping (my PP/Sachs were unduly harsh on bump impacts), that can be addressed as well, with little to no cost impact for a mass-produced vehicle like this.

*If* they did lower the car on the suspension a wee bit, I would bet they have increased bump travel by a similar amount or more.

I like the choice of the new engine which for sure is an improvement, but it won't suddenly move the car into a whole new category. For me it is a total waste of money to buy the new one and start doing the same modifications. It would make sense only if he is a newcomer, or his 86/BRZ is already old with high mileage etc.

I love my '17 PP with the mods I've done to it, I'm sure I'll hold out until at least the '23 model. Sure, +20% more torque is nice but of course it's still in the same category (of one, or two if BRZ and 86 are considered two different cars). I'll get a 2nd gen sooner or later.

Yeah, buying a new car usually is a waste of some $$$. For a lot of us, the new engine will be compelling enough to go ahead though. Your priorities aren't the same as everyone's, of course people should make responsible choices based on their own wants and needs and resources. What doesn't make sense for you, might make sense for others...

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Sick. I can’t wait to see it in the flesh. Metal.

Any comparison to the old one? How did it compare in hood height, fender flare, width in the hips?

Anything that really stuck out? Did they let people open it?

The car looks very similar everywhere but the rear fender flare area looks capable of fitting wider wheels than our generation. The front fender area looks the same in width to my eyes. I couldn't find a bad angle to this car and the grille looks smaller and less noticeable in person. The interior felt just like sitting in our car as well and the quality of interior was the same. The trunk and engine bay was deja vu all over again. The lines in the body look better in person. I was a hater of the BRZ front end but loved the GR86 front end but after yesterday I like both.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Having said the above ... If you are thinking that in general whatever is published in catalog cannot be related to "marketing" , then you are just dreaming or living in a fantasy land.

Promoting the things that make a car perform better doesn't detract from the fact that these things make the car perform better.

When someone says 'Oh that's just marketing', its like saying that it doesn't mean anything.

But that's just not always true.

As you said _everything_ could be said to be marketing, yet some things are important and effect performance in ways that matter. For instance CG, Power/Torque figures, weight are all important metrics.

And even if its a slight improvement, its better than it being worse - which is what you would suspect of they don't mention that its better.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by beltax90

,

Those aren't Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Promoting the things that make a car perform better doesn't detract from the fact that these things make the car perform better.

When someone says 'Oh that's just marketing', its like saying that it doesn't mean anything.

But that's just not always true.

As you said _everything_ could be said to be marketing, yet some things are important and effect performance in ways that matter. For instance CG, Power/Torque figures, weight are all important metrics.

And even if its a slight improvement, its better than it being worse - which is what you would suspect of they don't mention that its better.

I haven't said _everything_

Originally Posted by Blighty

Those aren't Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires.

This is the bare-bones JDM edition. You can tell it from the exhaust tail pipes. In the past they were using Yokohama dB decibel E70 in these models.

[Islindur]

I spoked to Toyo salesman that takes care of GR models here in Pl , he expect new 86 to start around 35k Euro, since every new Toyota model is more expensive and 86 is now higher taxed due to 2+L displacement (from 3% to 18.6%) and it may go as high optioned as 40k Euro. That is kinda crazy pricing for a low performance (for todays standards), medium build quality sports car. Its around a Civic Type R pricing. Also the 2.0 Supra starts at 46k. The 1st gen started at 29k Euro.

And cars will be deliviered to the customers at the start of 2022.

[Kronk]

Originally Posted by Islindur

I spoked to Toyo salesman that takes care of GR models here in Pl , he expect new 86 to start around 35k Euro, since every new Toyota model is more expensive and 86 is now higher taxed due to 2+L displacement (from 3% to 18.6%) and it may go as high optioned as 40k Euro. That is kinda crazy pricing for a low performance (for todays standards), medium build quality sports car. Its around a Civic Type R pricing. Also the 2.0 Supra starts at 46k. The 1st gen started at 29k Euro.

And cars will be deliviered to the customers at the start of 2022.

I hope It’s just a guess. 40k + optional is an overflow of 10k.
I think they would lose a lot of potential buyers.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I haven't said _everything_

I think saying "whatever is published in catalogue" is equally broad in this context.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I haven't said _everything_This is the bare-bones JDM edition. You can tell it from the exhaust tail pipes. In the past they were using Yokohama dB decibel E70 in these models.

I was thinking the same, but last time it didn't come painted - but perhaps that was just the bumper.

[Islindur]

Originally Posted by Kronk

I hope It’s just a guess. 40k + optional is an overflow of 10k.
I think they would lose a lot of potential buyers.

Assuming the new model wont get more expensive, which is highly unlikely since its newer tech, more aluminium, more body work with those air ducts etc, more electronics, it would already go up from 29k to 34k due to displacement tax alone (3->18.6%). So add to that a most likely "new model" price increase at it becomes easily 35-36k base, at least here in PL. Add some options like paint or bigger wheels/nicer interior package and it can easily jump to ~38-40k teritorry. And that is way 2much for a low performance car in my opinion these days. And since I have tunned 86 already, the increase in performance would be really low for me. So if it turns out to be in that price range I'm out.
Unless they wanna bite a bullet and take some of the tax costs on themselfs and lower the starting price. But even the GR Yaris is 36k Euro with Track Pack, and that is an option everyone gets. And its still only 1.6l so no displacement tax issues here and the salesaman told me he dont expect 86 to be less expensive. I heared ITA also has a huge dispalcement tax (I talked to a guy who got himself a Supra with 2.0 coz tax and price difference on 3.0 was so big), so not looking too bright for us

[nikitopo]

@Islindur : New model will be in worse position in Europe mainly cause of the displacement increase. Let's wait to see how it'll come here, because there is no official communication yet. They said that GR86 will come, but no information on specs or homologation.

[Kronk]

Originally Posted by Islindur

Assuming the new model wont get more expensive, which is highly unlikely since its newer tech, more aluminium, more body work with those air ducts etc, more electronics, it would already go up from 29k to 34k due to displacement tax alone (3->18.6%). So add to that a most likely "new model" price increase at it becomes easily 35-36k base, at least here in PL. Add some options like paint or bigger wheels/nicer interior package and it can easily jump to ~38-40k teritorry. And that is way 2much for a low performance car in my opinion these days. And since I have tunned 86 already, the increase in performance would be really low for me. So if it turns out to be in that price range I'm out.
Unless they wanna bite a bullet and take some of the tax costs on themselfs and lower the starting price. But even the GR Yaris is 36k Euro with Track Pack, and that is an option everyone gets. And its still only 1.6l so no displacement tax issues here and the salesaman told me he dont expect 86 to be less expensive. I heared ITA also has a huge dispalcement tax (I talked to a guy who got himself a Supra with 2.0 coz tax and price difference on 3.0 was so big), so not looking too bright for us

True, here in Italy we have dramatic taxes. Yaris GR here is 41900 € starting price and I don't know about a track pack.
But I think Yaris got very advanced solutions, while gr86 comes with standard solutions.

Here we pay dramatic insurances too, often based on engine cc and hp. Same for another tax that I don't know the English name, but for gr86 I'd pay 653€ based on 173 kw. And Again a super tax of 20€ for each kw over 185kw (no comment, but not a problem with gr86)

We will see, but if here we'll go over the miata full optional price (35k), I think i'll go with miata, less starting price, less tax for cc engine and kw.
Sad but true.

[Chronogps]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

@Islindur : New model will be in worse position in Europe mainly cause of the displacement increase.

For sure. In some countries like France co2 emissions will seriously increase the price. For example, 191 grs of co2 => 10 000 € of additionnal taxes.

[TheDonEffect]

Well for comparison sake, the Supra 2.0 is 46k in UK money, vs 43k in US money. Cars are typically cheaper here.

And I'm sure they realize they can't do a major price hike of any sort, a nominal one sure, but they can't jump a class especially with the new Z and now the Type R out in the 35k mark.

This car generally competes against the GTI in pricing, I expect it to stay that way. Yeah, they have this new tech and what not, but they also are stretching R&D costs since it's just an update platform. Also, screens cost less to produce than dials and knobs today.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Islindur

Assuming the new model wont get more expensive, which is highly unlikely since its newer tech, more aluminium, more body work with those air ducts etc, more electronics, it would already go up from 29k to 34k due to displacement tax alone (3->18.6%). So add to that a most likely "new model" price increase at it becomes easily 35-36k base, at least here in PL. Add some options like paint or bigger wheels/nicer interior package and it can easily jump to ~38-40k teritorry. And that is way 2much for a low performance car in my opinion these days. And since I have tunned 86 already, the increase in performance would be really low for me. So if it turns out to be in that price range I'm out.
Unless they wanna bite a bullet and take some of the tax costs on themselfs and lower the starting price. But even the GR Yaris is 36k Euro with Track Pack, and that is an option everyone gets. And its still only 1.6l so no displacement tax issues here and the salesaman told me he dont expect 86 to be less expensive. I heared ITA also has a huge dispalcement tax (I talked to a guy who got himself a Supra with 2.0 coz tax and price difference on 3.0 was so big), so not looking too bright for us

I assume you can't buy it in another country a bit cheaper, then drive it across and register it?