TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[KR-S]

I just find it strange he's so adamant about the second-gen now since he has yet to drive the car.

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Waited most the day to reply fully. But here is my worthless .02

First off, I’m very happy this car was made at all, the fact they still build these types of cars for us should be commended, especially with a manual transmission.

As you may know from my previous posts, I sold my Camaro SS to get either a current gen or the new gen if I waited.

What I like:
1) Still under 2900 lbs.
2) Chassis improvements
3) New motor, with a lesser torque dip
4) Improved track mode

What I dislike:
1) the front bumper (headlights look fine, not a fan of the front bumper personally.
2) The side skirts/rocker panels. I feel a cleaner aftermarket design would fit the cleaner lines of the rest of the vehicle.

In short, overall it’s a “good enough” design, but if I had a 2017-20 86/BRZ I’d be happy with what I have and wait.
Stock for stock I feel the 1st Gen is a far cleaner design. No question.

With that said this is by no means a “bad” looking car, but would take more work to look “clean” to me than the current models.

This will be my 3rd car, so I’m going to wait to see the Toyota version, and DRIVE them both before I decide.

Chassis improvements etc sound great on paper, but until I actually drive the car I’m not sold as I expected to be.

I’m going to wait it out for another year until I can experience the car first hand.

Again, very happy with what I see on paper, but to me the styling on the first gen is a far cleaner design stock.

Opinions are a good thing, can’t please everyone but can’t get mad at people for stating their honest opinion.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Ultimately, it looks like I'll be a 1 Generation owner of the 86.

There's not enough positive difference here for me to want a second gen, although I do like the Toyota better than the Subaru.

I'm with @Tcoat on the side profile negatives, and obviously that isn't where they could distinguish the models.

No surprise really though, I can think of only one time I've replaced a specific car model with the same model, and that was with the family hauler (Chevy Astro).

Astros were good. Probably why gm discontinued them

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

What would you do if your FRS died and could not reasonably be fixed (too great a cost or catastrophic frame damage)? Would you find a used Gen 1 or get something entirely different?

I'd move on to something else. The something else would depend on what was available at the time at a reasonable price. I'd likely buy used and move up a bit. Something like a C7 or CTS-V if it happened today.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Astros were good. Probably why gm discontinued them

I always thought that as well. They were a great size, decent performers and could tow well. They even got decent gas mileage for what they were.

[JusTheG]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

What would you do if your FRS died and could not reasonably be fixed (too great a cost or catastrophic frame damage)? Would you find a used Gen 1 or get something entirely different?

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Astros were good. Probably why gm discontinued them

I hate to be the person to provide a dire reality, but just from what I see from the Service and Remanufacturing side from OEM's things are not looking good for cheap service parts for cars from before 2008. I'm hopeful more new cars are coming out with compatible parts that could be retrofitted onto older vehicles based on controller logic and programming, but I can guarantee that you will see a greater premium on Service Parts from 2023 onwards.

Just to clarify without going into detail which parts I see already going End of Life (EOL), there is a lot of Chrysler and GM product that are going towards the next generation and are phasing out the older generation service models as fast as possible. Other OEM's are following suit because of how much more demand current Production Plants have to produce with all the new car sales. Contracts are aiming to require longer Service Build durations, but what OEM's are seeing is a certain threshold for how much quantity they can store to support a vehicle for X amount of years. Once they see the trend, they will see from the Supplier to do a final Build Quantity and then phase out the tooling, production lines, and the associated test protocol. Only a few companies that I had or are currently working with will continue supporting the product, but even then the amount of support will be limited (reflash, debugging, but no full manufacturing).

The silver lining in this situation is that there is some good modern CANbus protocols that can work with older models. I'm sure that Toyota/Subaru with their preferred OEM's (Denso, Bosch, etc.) will have support for the Twins due to compatibility with other Production Models. In terms of structural repair, a body shop will always quote with respect to the labor and material acquisition costs but that is always possible based on Product Drawings and Authorized Production Rights. If people need it and will pay for it, someone will make it.

[soundman98]

wow, that's a lot of passion for a car that isn't currently available to the general public.

i'm enjoying the big rants about us being 12 year olds.

I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I'M 3 AND A HALF.

[Jordanwolf]

The 5x100 squabbles entertain me.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Bunch of poser internet keyboard warriors

Everything I stated was a fact, you girls simply are jealous little bitches.

Literally act like 12 year olds, who live with your parents. I’ve been modding/racing cars longer than you little millennials have been alive. Hope to see you all at one of the nationwide gatherings or meets, oh wait I forgot you stay at home because your scared of the fake Plandemic

You should see my inbox messages from multiple people who thanked me for speaking up against you TCoat, about they’ve never liked you but don’t want to say anything as they know you’ll stalk them to and harass them. You’re an internet bully, but a fucking ***** in real life.

I’ve since moved over to another forum anyhow which is full of adults who can have actual discussions, and different opinions, not high school tweeny bopper BS that goes on here.

Keep harassing people who dare to have different opinions than yourself, you’re the epitome of an internet keyboard warrior. Look at how many posts you have lmfao, you DONT EVEN WORK, you spend all day on this forum, you have no life, literally

You won’t have to worry about my facts & opinions that get your panties in a bunch any longer, I will never return here at all after this post to read or engage any further. Now go ahead with more pointless posts against me that I won’t ever read, but will give you nerds the internet attention you so deeply care about!

[Boccaccio]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Bunch of poser internet keyboard warriors

Everything I stated was a fact, you girls simply are jealous little bitches.

Literally act like 12 year olds, who live with your parents. I’ve been modding/racing cars longer than you little millennials have been alive. Hope to see you all at one of the nationwide gatherings or meets, oh wait I forgot you stay at home because your scared of the fake Plandemic

You should see my inbox messages from multiple people who thanked me for speaking up against you TCoat, about they’ve never liked you but don’t want to say anything as they know you’ll stalk them to and harass them. You’re an internet bully, but a fucking ***** in real life.

I’ve since moved over to another forum anyhow which is full of adults who can have actual discussions, and different opinions, not high school tweeny bopper BS that goes on here.

Keep harassing people who dare to have different opinions than yourself, you’re the epitome of an internet keyboard warrior. Look at how many posts you have lmfao, you DONT EVEN WORK, you spend all day on this forum, you have no life, literally

You won’t have to worry about my facts & opinions that get your panties in a bunch any longer, I will never return here at all after this post to read or engage any further. Now go ahead with more pointless posts against me that I won’t ever read, but will give you nerds the internet attention you so deeply care about!

Whooah, that escalated quickly :O

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JusTheG

I hate to be the person to provide a dire reality, but just from what I see from the Service and Remanufacturing side from OEM's things are not looking good for cheap service parts for cars from before 2008. I'm hopeful more new cars are coming out with compatible parts that could be retrofitted onto older vehicles based on controller logic and programming, but I can guarantee that you will see a greater premium on Service Parts from 2023 onwards.

Just to clarify without going into detail which parts I see already going End of Life (EOL), there is a lot of Chrysler and GM product that are going towards the next generation and are phasing out the older generation service models as fast as possible. Other OEM's are following suit because of how much more demand current Production Plants have to produce with all the new car sales. Contracts are aiming to require longer Service Build durations, but what OEM's are seeing is a certain threshold for how much quantity they can store to support a vehicle for X amount of years. Once they see the trend, they will see from the Supplier to do a final Build Quantity and then phase out the tooling, production lines, and the associated test protocol. Only a few companies that I had or are currently working with will continue supporting the product, but even then the amount of support will be limited (reflash, debugging, but no full manufacturing).

The silver lining in this situation is that there is some good modern CANbus protocols that can work with older models. I'm sure that Toyota/Subaru with their preferred OEM's (Denso, Bosch, etc.) will have support for the Twins due to compatibility with other Production Models. In terms of structural repair, a body shop will always quote with respect to the labor and material acquisition costs but that is always possible based on Product Drawings and Authorized Production Rights. If people need it and will pay for it, someone will make it.

I am seeing similar changes.
Meanwhile we still keep pumping out replacement rotors for the PT Cruiser in unbelievable volumes! Who the hell are still driving these things and why are they so hard on the brakes?

[spcmafia]

Man, I love this forum.

[JusTheG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am seeing similar changes.
Meanwhile we still keep pumping out replacement rotors for the PT Cruiser in unbelievable volumes! Who the hell are still driving these things and why are they so hard on the brakes?

Isn't that the best part of the Automotive Industry Tcoat? For some odd reason, people buy stuff in DROVES if it's a common wear part or something absolutely necessary for the car. For a lot of ECU's and Electronic Modules, these things can last for a while but I see the same thing too. For some odd reason, Customers/Distributors are buying so much volume of these ECU's and I'm wondering "Who still uses these modules?"

When a product that is older than me and is still in production, I become amazed at what uses it. There are production lines where I still run product made for cars from the late 80's but things are sadly changing when in 2-3 years the production will cease. I just want anyone who has an older car they want to keep driving to make sure to do that Service ASAP if trying to replace something electronically or seeing degradation in the OBDI/early OBDII logic on their cars. Things sadly are not getting cheaper.

And on a side note, for a lot of newer cars with Advanced Radar Sensors (ARS) / Short Range Radar (SRR) sensors be aware that even the cars without Activated Safety detection may still have the sensors integrated into the chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if there are SRR sensors on the Manual BRZ/GR86 that were included in the Car Cost for general installation. There obviously will not be the Eyesight ARS sensors that the Automatics have mounted above the Rearview mirror, but there are features like the rotating LED Low-beam fixtures that makes me wonder what will interact with it for Safety purposes.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Man, I love this forum.

The apparent rules (Special Snowflake Edition)

Speculation is encouraged unless your speculation goes against the popular myths.
Passive aggressive insults are fine but if you openly call somebody out for them you are a jerk.

People on a forum think somebody is foolish because they are on the forum more than them. Not really sure how that works but if you don't have any real point to make it is the go to tactic.

Make sure to only read those posts by somebody in one small sub category while ignoring everything else they say. This gives you the perfect insight to judge them.

If you state dislike of anything you automatically are a hater with no right to say anything negative.

If you don't have anything good to say just shut up. Counter arguments are not welcome and you don't even get a participation ribbon.

The Clickbaits are infallible, always 100% accurate and should be taken as gospel.

Real life means nothing since bench racing and assumptions rule over all.

Above all and the leading tenet of The Snowflake Church Of Toyota/Subaru is to always, ALWAYS bow down and kiss their feet for the honour they have bestowed on you by still making performance cars no matter if those cars appeal to you personally or not.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'd move on to something else. The something else would depend on what was available at the time at a reasonable price. I'd likely buy used and move up a bit. Something like a C7 or CTS-V if it happened today.

If I had to replace my car today and could not get a NEW 86/BRZ in any colour other than white, grey., silver or black (doesn't leave much choice) I would probably go with either a mid level Camaro, Supra or a Mita RF. This same order would apply when the new 86/BRZ come out. Hopefully I do not have to replace my current 86 though!