Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

But that's not what anyone is tryng to do, now is it? As I requested of Opie, show me a citation to some credible source that supports your fear. Then, let's discuss it.

If you are flying internationally you will adhere to the requirements for the destination country. When you return home you will adhere to the requirements of your destination country as well.
If, for a clearly evident scientific reason related to variant mutations, there are revision vaccines in the future, then we are already battling a huge problem again and at this point let's say if this was WWII we are in 194(3) with this virus. Do we want '4(4) and '4(5)? That's in part up to us. More so than we relize but unfortunately humans aren't ants. And humans are contacting humans all the time. Except unlike ants we don't have programmed instinctive behaviour, we have these prefrontal lobe things that get so many in trouble while at the same time enable us to conjure up cures for these biological adversaries.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

But that's not what anyone is tryng to do, now is it? As I requested of Opie, show me a citation to some credible source that supports your fear. Then, let's discuss it.

I know I know... the slippery slope is just a fallacy right? (Yet if there's all these new strains coming out and vaccine passports become a requirement than how does that not add up to required vaccines all time)

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[Opie]

Originally Posted by weederr33

And yet you're still here...?

Wow, burn how will I ever recover?

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Spuds

It sounds like you are selling the additional research as a bad thing. But I see them reinvesting what they have made off the vaccine into further research that may or may not work out. Totally what I would do if I were them. Yes they are a business with employees who need to be paid and shareholders who would like to see a profit, we don't live in a communist society after all. I don't see the problem here.

More assumptions that a additional research is being funded by this, b that the amounts they are receiving are in line with the costs used to develop it and a reasonable profit margin for a product that we still don't know how effective it is, that is almost being required for every person.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/pfi...?id=D000000138

Profits for companies and shareholders aren't an issue within a normal business model, but when need, supply & demand are manipulated to artificially inflate costs and profits, that I have issue with.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Well, I remember seeing some crazy spring break BS down your way so maybe that has something to do with the increases?

As far as the individual case you are referring to, perhaps that is exactly why we still need to maintain social distancing practices after being vaccinated. This is going to be a whack-a-mole for a while since folks can't seem to keep their infections to themselves.

Spring breakers aren't generally Floridians, percentage positive in Florida is relatively flat. And as I've said before, mask use is much better in Florida than most of the 15 or so other states I've visited in the past year so they are trying to "keep it to themselves".

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wel...me/ar-BB14RoST

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Opie

Wow, burn how will I ever recover?

Don't care.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I reported that post but apparently the moderators can't be bothered.

Reported a post because I don't care if people die? Here's some knowledge for ya, that's the only thing all humans share, we are all going to die. I choose to not waste my short time on this planet worrying about it, or trying to cure the darwinism that the majority of the population displays every moment. Let them bask in their accomplishment. Doesn't bother me in the least.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by wbradley

There is a certain immorality about not taking the necessary precautions to protect your fellow human being.

As there is a certain immorality about taking unnecessary risks to protect your fellow human beings.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Opie

More assumptions that a additional research is being funded by this, b that the amounts they are receiving are in line with the costs used to develop it and a reasonable profit margin for a product that we still don't know how effective it is, that is almost being required for every person.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/pfi...?id=D000000138

Profits for companies and shareholders aren't an issue within a normal business model, but when need, supply & demand are manipulated to artificially inflate costs and profits, that I have issue with.

I agree that we don't know for a fact how effective it is now, but not for the reasons you might think. We DO know how effective it was up until 5 months ago against strains that people in the trial my gut have been exposed to. Those strains are still out there, and continue to mutate. So by vaccinating specifically against those strains, we make progress to reduce the rate of mutation into strains that we have no artificial defense against, and clearly are somewhat effective at combating our natural defenses. Right now, there are strains that the vaccine(s) has clearly not prepared us for, and those take time to catalogue and study.

Basically this is a war of attrition. Just because somebody survives one strain, doesn't mean the next won't be worse. So we need to deny the virus the resources it needs to multiply and adapt. Getting vaccinated is by far the least inconvenient way to do that.

I don't see how political contributions are relevant here, especially since it seems that company has contributed more money in recent times to the party with which anti vaxers typically align.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

But that's not what anyone is tryng to do, now is it? As I requested of Opie, show me a citation to some credible source that supports your fear. Then, let's discuss it.

And again I'll ask, what fear do I have that you are referring to?

It's your fear of me, and others, not conforming to your ideals in regards to this virus that is the point of your discussion here.

I, as I do with pretty much anything, weigh the data, information and options and make an informed decision based on those facts. As data, information and facts evolve, my decisions may change as well. This is common sense, and is not based in fear.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I know I know... the slippery slope is just a fallacy right? (Yet if there's all these new strains coming out and vaccine passports become a requirement than how does that not add up to required vaccines all time)

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A lot of ifs (stated and implied) there. And, while the "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy that does not mean the no slopes are slippery. One of the major problems with discussions like this is the slipperiness of the language we use to discuss it. Your comment created a fictional "someone" and placed them in the fictional role of locking you up inside. The key word is "fictional." Might that actually happen some day? Perhaps. But flaming monkeys could, at some point, come flying out of my ass. Both are unlikely events and I see no need to start wearing nomex clothing. Nor do I think it likely that you'll be locked inside.

If I am running a business in the current health climate, and you show up unvaccinated despite having reasonable access to a vaccine (not a reality yet, but hopefully soon) I don't want you inside. I'll forego your money to 1) protect my responsible customers and employees, 2) to emphasize the importance of a communal response to the crisis and 3) to provide you with an incentive to take steps that are socially desirable. If enough of my fellow business people do this, #3 may be enough to persuade you to vax/mask up.

The best way to limit the need for a continuous cycle of virus breakouts and vaccine revisions is to limit the virus's opportunities to evolve. We do that by limiting the infections now. Anti-vaxers and "maskholes" seriously impede our ability to get there. You may not like it, but a very effective way to deal with them is to isolate them.

Of course, it's always possible, even likely, that someone(s) will sense an opportunity and open businesses catering to anti-vaxers and maskholes. What can I say? Beer is good and people are really fucked up.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Basically this is a war of attrition. Just because somebody survives one strain, doesn't mean the next won't be worse. So we need to deny the virus the resources it needs to multiply and adapt.

Agreed, every virus mutates, every virus has always mutated, our immune system is designed to handle this. We have never been able to deny a virus the resources used to multiply and adapt, we've only found the resources to teach our immune systems to fight the things we can isolate in a lab, which almost never as quick and/or effective as nature.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I know I know... the slippery slope is just a fallacy right? (Yet if there's all these new strains coming out and vaccine passports become a requirement than how does that not add up to required vaccines all time)

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It could, in a worse case scenario. And who has the power to prevent it from getting worse and worse? We do. It could pose travel restrictions requiring testing for who knows how long.
I know a lot of pilots have been grounded or flying greatly reduced hours. Great timing for the 737 Max to be grounded when it was I suppose, since many would have been anyway.

Don't take the pandemic personally and don't whine. It looks bad on you.

[spike021]

If taking unnecessary risks is such a big deal, I wonder how many people care about all the day laborers who are out in shit conditions all day, 24/7, being paid a pittance to harvest produce?

i.e. last year when California had the bad fires, these people were doing their normal, slave labor-like jobs in areas covered by incredibly unhealthy smoke-filled air.

Where was the support for these people who were taking unnecessary risks for other people? Since they're taking a huge risk to harvest healthy food that other people need to survive.