TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[Jegan_V]

I have to concur I also prefer the Toyota look. This time around it looks like they're mounting the front plate where it doesn't stick out, they put it in the grille so that it doesn't distract...which is coincidentally how my car has it. The BRZ however doesn't address that at all, looks like its going to have nasty holes if it started in a place that requires front plates and then goes to one that doesn't need them.

I'm curious to see what colours they both offer. Is there going to be exclusive colours yet again like Hot Lava for Toyota and World rally blue for Subaru? Would love it if there was no restrictions for the colours this time.

[Irace86.2.0]

So that is probably half of the improvement.

I don't think the 8th and 9th gen Si going from 2.0 to 2.4 did much different.

[revaholic]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

More GR video:

I'm going to use my limited Japanese to interpret that first video, which is actually quite informative. Overall sounds like GR86 is an even more excitable version of the zenki 86, and they keep talking about the rear stability of the BRZ and it's sense of security:


3:15 Beautiful 86 drift
8:16 86 has a more excited initial throttle response whereas BRZ has a more linear throttle response
8:35 BRZ has deeper roll in the back?
9:10 BRZ has a very stable cornering feel, no sense of insecurity at all
12:14 86 feels like a sharpened version of the early years zenki 86
14:10 86 has a very excitable feeling
14:43 BRZ has a stable feeling, but within that stability you can feel that it is FR
16:45 BRZ despite being FR has the sense of security of an AWD car
17:37 It has started to rain but the stability and security is still very high
17:55 BRZ seems to have inherited Subaru’s AWD philosophy
18:45 When BRZ is made to slide it is very controllable
19:20 BRZ characteristics is not only one of composure, it also accepts drifting
20:30 In 86 you can feel the GR characteristics from the Yaris and Supra
22:15 In the 86 you can sense the flavour of the Yaris and Supra. In contrast, in the BRZ you can sense the flavour of the Impreza and Levorg
22:50 You can really feel the added distinct flavours from each company between the BRZ and 86 with this generation
23:43 You get a grand touring sense from the BRZ
24:15 When you wring it out it is fun as a FR car, but when you’re not the Subaru DNA is great
24:40 In 3rd gear, the 86’s rear still drifts, but in the BRZ the rear stays planted in 3rd.
24:45 In 2nd gear you can get the BRZ to drift but the rear stability is distinct

[vh_supra26]

Another drop. I did it on MS Paint so it's not prefect, but you get the idea.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Guru Woodman

Talk about a major letdown. I was all excited to see that Toyota had something important to show us on April 5th.
I was eagerly awaiting a AWD hot hatch (with the sexy 3 pot) for North America because we are not getting the GR Yaris. Toyota even hinted at this in one of its press releases.

They even talked about postponing the GR86 launch because Akio Toyoda demanded the GR86 to be substantially different than the BRZ.
And what do we get? A Gen2 BRZ with a different bumper (which does look better imo).

That last bit was always just auto tabloid BS for clicks...

Unless you see a press release or some other official thing, never take that kind of crap at face value.

[PandaEighty-Six]

I really like the direction of the GR86. While the rear has yet to grow on me and I'm not sure about the interior, the more I look at the car, the more I'm convinced of trading in my 2018 86 for a new one in a few years, after all of the quirks have been worked out and, assuming, there are are higher trim levels.

[Ash_89]

I wonder when the next event is going to be to announce colours, gear ratios and pricing.

They are really drip feeding this out aren't they?

[Blighty]

Hmm.

[Ash_89]

For those who were lost as to what was being said in Japanese in the Lovecars! TV! first drive video (YouTubes auto translate to English is working now), here's an attempt to translate from the YouTube comments section by thefuturedrive:

Here's my attempt to translate some of this into English! Please help someone who speaks Japanese!

3:15 Beautiful 86 drift
8:16 86 has a more excited initial throttle response particularly BRZ has a more linear throttle response
8:35 BRZ has deeper roll in the back?
9:10 BRZ has a very stable cornering feel, no sense of insecurity at all
12:14 86 feels like a sharpened version of the early years zenki 86
14:10 86 has a very excitable feeling
14:43 BRZ has a stable feeling, but within that stability you can feel that it is FR
16:45 BRZ despite being FR has the sense of security of an AWD car
17:37 It has started to rain but the stability and security is still very high
17:55 BRZ seems to have inherited Subaru's AWD philosophy
18:45 When BRZ is made to slide it is very controllable
19:20 BRZ characteristics is not only one of composure, it also accepts drifting
20:30 In 86 you can feel the GR characteristics from the Yaris and Supra
22:15 In the 86 you can sense the flavor of the Yaris and Supra. In contrast, in the BRZ you can sense the flavor of the Impreza and Levorg
22:50 You can really feel the added distinct flavours from each company between the BRZ and 86 with this generation
23:43 You get a grand touring sense from the BRZ
24:15 When you wring it out it is fun as a FR car, but when you're not the Subaru DNA is great
24:40 In 3rd gear, the 86's rear still drifts, but in the BRZ the rear stays planted in 3rd.
24:45 In 2nd gear you can get the BRZ to drift but the rear stability is distinct

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

So that is probably half of the improvement.

I don't think the 8th and 9th gen Si going from 2.0 to 2.4 did much different.

I want to agree, but magazines were never able to get the TS off the line any quicker than the standard car, in fact car and driver managed quicker in the 2017 limited:

2018 TS:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/
0-60: 6.3s
1/4: 14.9s 94mph

2017 limited:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
0-60: 6.2s
1/4: 14.8s 95mph

[spcmafia]

I guess I'll chime in into the opinion that the Toyota looks better. I honestly don't know what was the thought process behind the BRZ's front bumper. I might have to switch if I decide to upgrade down the road. But at the same time, if I upgrade, it may not be another 86/BRZ since the first gen will probably hold more of a sentimental value among enthusiasts.

[WolfpackS2k]

A better time to use for measurement is the 5-60 mph time. Involves zero tire or clutch slip, and is a MUCH better measurement for what you will do in the real world on public roads.

Civic Si's engine isn't good for comparison since the 2.4 had a considerably lower redline than the 2.0 (about 1000 rpm IIRC). That would have resulted in big modifications to the gear ratios of the transmission. Meanwhile the new 2.4 for the 2nd gen actually has a higher redline the the 2.0.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Uhhh, the previous gen manual does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds. Maybe slightly slower to 62. The auto was much slower. Odd that Toyota has it so slow.

As @WolfpackS2k said, 5-60 is a more objective measure of acceleration than '0-60'.

Measuring a 0-60 time is fine with an automatic transmission, but there are so many variables with a manual that it becomes almost irrelevant. With a stick, the launch has a huge impact on the 0-60 time, and the reality is that most people are either incapable or unwilling to launch a manual transmission car to maximize acceleration and get the lowest 0-60 time.

Think about how you'd have to launch a car to truly get the best 0-60 time. Back in the 'old days' (when cars had carburetors), Car & Driver used to consistently get the lowest 0-60 times compared with MT, R&T, or any other reviewers. It's because they would launch the car far more aggressively than most sane people ever would. Rev the engine to redline, and then drop the clutch or with a high-torque motor sidestep the left foot off the clutch and pop it. Some speed shifting along the way without lifting off the gas helped as well, and away you go.

That kind of abuse to the driveline would certainly get great 0-60 times, but at the expense of dramatically shortening the life of the clutch, transmission, and other components. Most owners wouldn't treat their cars that way because they wouldn't want to be replacing clutches and transmissions every couple of thousand miles (or even more often).

I think it was C&D that originally came up with the 5-60 acceleration test as a more objective measure of a car's performance. Have the clutch fully engaged and moving at 5 mph, then gas pedal to the floor and accelerate to redline and shift. There are still the variables of how quickly one does the 1-2, and sometimes 2-3 shifts that will significantly impact the ultimate time, but 5-60 overall is a much more objective and realistic measure of a car’s performance without the variable of driver skill.

"0-60" was used for so long it's still ingrained in many of our minds, and used as the metric to compare cars. I've never put much stock in it, given that the times can vary by a second or two (or more) between drivers. I'd be more interested in seeing back-to-back 5-60 comparisons between the new car and old.

Most of all, I could care less about any of the 'numbers'. I just want to take the new car for a nice long drive on different kinds of roads, and see how it feels to me coming out of my current car. That's what will make up my mind whether or not to buy it (or the Nissan Z, or just keep my current car).

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Another drop. I did it on MS Paint so it's not prefect, but you get the idea.

I combined them for easy comparison