turbo or super

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

How would a turbo be different?

A turbo has more ancilliary costs.

Jaden

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Jaden

A turbo has more ancilliary costs.

Jaden

Like what?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Like what?

Show me anyone who has made a turbo 86 with flex fuel and tune for under $500 and I will concede it.

Jaden

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Show me anyone who has made a turbo 86 with flex fuel and tune for under $500 and I will concede it.

Jaden

Show me anyone who has made a supercharged 86 with flex fuel and tune for under $500, and I will concede that this had nothing to do with the topic. If you are trying to humble brag, you are suppose to first say something humbling instead of just skipping to the non-sequitur bragging.

Moreover, it is telling that you dodged the question I asked about what makes your situation unique for a supercharger that couldn't be done with a turbocharger. Regardless, this isn't the reality most people live with regards to the cost, nor is it really addressing the issue of which one is better or worse, but typically, it is cheaper to get into a basic turbo setup than a supercharger.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Show me anyone who has made a supercharged 86 with flex fuel and tune for under $500, and I will concede that this had nothing to do with the topic. If you are trying to humble brag, you are suppose to first say something humbling instead of just skipping to the non-sequitur bragging.

Moreover, it is telling that you dodged the question I asked about what makes your situation unique for a supercharger that couldn't be done with a turbocharger. Regardless, this isn't the reality most people live with regards to the cost, nor is it really addressing the issue of which one is better or worse, but typically, it is cheaper to get into a basic turbo setup than a supercharger.

And it wasn't humble bragging, it was straight up bragging...lol. I'll be posting a build thread before too long. I'm in solidworks as we speak working on some components for it.

As to answering your question, the biggest cost difference would be the oiling for the turbo and the exhaust manifold and routing, which aren't necessary for a S/C.

I could fab the exhaust using the catless header I already have or even the stock header but it's still additional cost. Even for someone with my resources, it would still be closer to $1000 for a turbo setup.

Actually, I had already started to build a remote mount turbo when I still lived in Commufornia but I didn't want an electric oil pump so I was fabbing my own adapter for the wrx's oil return pump(the kit used on the existing turbo kit for our cars was over 500). I had gone a different route and was building a 4.6 ford to swap in and had taken the turbo out of the stock frs muffler and put it in my VR6 jetta but after realizing how cheap and easy it would be to add a S/C I detoured from the swap for the time being.

Now I should be only about a week from being finished. I just finished porting the S/C housing and am waiting for some aluminum to come in for mounting.

Now it helps that I had a spare engine and spare intake to modify for the supercharger so I saved money. I'll get into the details in the build thread. I think I'm going to take out the injectors and put them in my flow bench tomorrow since they've been sitting because my plan is to just use the intake as it was sitting with the fuel rails and injectors already in. That makes swapping back and forth like a 2 hour endeavor if I would want to do so.

I may take some pictures tomorrow to show some progress although my intention was to create the build thread after it was all said and done.

Jaden

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Jaden

And it wasn't humble bragging, it was straight up bragging...lol. I'll be posting a build thread before too long. I'm in solidworks as we speak working on some components for it.

Jaden

At least you owned it.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Show me anyone who has made a turbo 86 with flex fuel and tune for under $500 and I will concede it.

Jaden

I did full turbo with flex fuel for 1$ actually.

Bought it all from irace86 actually.

So sorry you’re setup was 500x overpriced, next time shop around more.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Jaden

And it wasn't humble bragging, it was straight up bragging...lol. I'll be posting a build thread before too long. I'm in solidworks as we speak working on some components for it.

As to answering your question, the biggest cost difference would be the oiling for the turbo and the exhaust manifold and routing, which aren't necessary for a S/C.

I could fab the exhaust using the catless header I already have or even the stock header but it's still additional cost. Even for someone with my resources, it would still be closer to $1000 for a turbo setup.

Actually, I had already started to build a remote mount turbo when I still lived in Commufornia but I didn't want an electric oil pump so I was fabbing my own adapter for the wrx's oil return pump(the kit used on the existing turbo kit for our cars was over 500). I had gone a different route and was building a 4.6 ford to swap in and had taken the turbo out of the stock frs muffler and put it in my VR6 jetta but after realizing how cheap and easy it would be to add a S/C I detoured from the swap for the time being.

Now I should be only about a week from being finished. I just finished porting the S/C housing and am waiting for some aluminum to come in for mounting.

Now it helps that I had a spare engine and spare intake to modify for the supercharger so I saved money. I'll get into the details in the build thread. I think I'm going to take out the injectors and put them in my flow bench tomorrow since they've been sitting because my plan is to just use the intake as it was sitting with the fuel rails and injectors already in. That makes swapping back and forth like a 2 hour endeavor if I would want to do so.

I may take some pictures tomorrow to show some progress although my intention was to create the build thread after it was all said and done.

Jaden

You shouldn’t “brag” or post cost until it’s actually up and running doing full pulls.

What blower you using? how much was it? and where/how did you get it?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You shouldn’t “brag” or post cost until it’s actually up and running doing full pulls.

What blower you using? how much was it? and where/how did you get it?

I always watch Richard Holdener and he was doing an m90 ls build. The m90 wasn't enough for the ls but it's perfect for a stock block fa20. So I went to the yard and found one in awesome condition.

It's almost like it was made perfectly for the fa20, the output hole lines up with the big square portion of the stock intake manfold when the pulley is in perfect alignment with the serpentine belt.

The crank pulleys on the 3800 and the fa20 are almost the same size but the fa20 has a redline 1300 rpm higher than the 3800. So it will be rotating the m90 at about 13500 rpm which is perfect for about 300 wheel on E...

I'm also building a water to air intercooler for it so I might in the future opt to switch out to the 3.4 pulley and take it up to 330-350 wheel.

The 3800 N/A was also 200 hp and the gen 5 on 6lbs made 260hp on a super conservative factory tune. Now my car isn't stock so it's making closer to 240 bhp so it ends up being perfect for about 300 wheel on the stock pulley on E. I ported the gen III m90 so it should be close to on par with the gen V.

I cut off the long intake on the back of the m90 and I'm fabbing up an intake that will mount the stock 86 throttle body that will swing around to the front with piping and tie into my perrin CAI. This will all be mounted onto the stock intake manifold.

The bearings are all good on the m90 and it's the cleanest used S/C I've ever seen. The guys at the yard were surprised I was able to find one. I did get a replacement snout coupler and I'll replace the S/C oil though.

The S/C cost me $90, the coupler $13, various aluminum and such around $30. Panel bond $30. There will still be some additional costs, but remember, I've already proven I can do flex fuel for $156 and I've ran that for over 3 years so, as far as being able to do what I say, been there done that.

Jaden

p.s. as far as posting the cost, It should come in at WAY under $500, $500 is allowing for any unforseen costs. I have a CNC mill, 5 3d printers, a gun smithing lathe, a cnc lathe and a welder so I'm not including the costs of what I already have that allows me to fab pretty much anything I want.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Jaden

The m90 wasn't enough for the ls but it's perfect for a stock block fa20

not a bad size, should be a good middle ground between a sprintex 210 and a tvs 1320

The crank pulleys on the 3800 and the fa20 are almost the same size but the fa20 has a redline 1300 rpm higher than the 3800. So it will be rotating the m90 at about 13500 rpm which is perfect for about 300 wheel on E...

I'm also building a water to air intercooler for it so I might in the future opt to switch out to the 3.4 pulley and take it up to 330-350 wheel.

your trying to hit 300 without an intercooler? Are you at least running wmi?

I cut off the long intake on the back of the m90 and I'm fabbing up an intake that will mount the stock 86 throttle body that will swing around to the front with piping and tie into my perrin CAI. This will all be mounted onto the stock intake manifold.

Sounds similar to the sprintex, stock plastic manifold or metal? I hope you’re not using the plastic one to support all this under load.

The S/C cost me $90, the coupler $13, various aluminum and such around $30. Panel bond $30. There will still be some additional costs, but remember, I've already proven I can do flex fuel for $156 and I've ran that for over 3 years so, as far as being able to do what I say, been there done that.
a ff kit is easy, that’s like saying I’ve walked to the store once so i can go run a marathon.
Jaden

p.s. as far as posting the cost, It should come in at WAY under $500, $500 is allowing for any unforseen costs. I have a CNC mill, 5 3d printers, a gun smithing lathe, a cnc lathe and a welder so I'm not including the costs of what I already have that allows me to fab pretty much anything I want.
That’s if you don’t account for and value your time though

Imbedded a few responses.

Sounds like a cool project none the less, hope it works out and you get some dyno numbers or some solid pulls in to validate what you’ve done.

[Irace86.2.0]

A turbo can be done the same and probably easier for more people with just a welder. Used turbos and manifolds and oil lines can all be harvested for cheap from a junk yard. Internal wastegate. No BOV for low boost. Old manifolds for welding up a turbo manifold to the stock header.

This isn’t the reality for the vast majority, but even if it was, turbo is better.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Imbedded a few responses.

Sounds like a cool project none the less, hope it works out and you get some dyno numbers or some solid pulls in to validate what you’ve done.

I'm running an intercooler on it from the start, and since I am, I may (in the future) after verifying everything is working well, switch to a 3.4 pulley for more power.

Yes the stock plastic intake manifold, but the S/C will be supported by metal brackets separately and the plastic intake will be supported with aluminum as well. The plastic intake is more than capable of handling the boost, I just have to make sure that the super charger is properly supported to be able to handle the load of the belt turning it.

and yes I'm sorry but that marathon analogy is no where close to the same. Yes, building a flex fuel kit may be relatively easy (although less people would be able to code it) but getting it all done with tune for $156 is a different story all together.

Jaden

Besides, I'm only running E, I could easily get away with the 280-300 non intercooled on E with no crazy timing, but it won't matter because I will be intercooled.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I'm running an intercooler on it from the start, and since I am, I may (in the future) after verifying everything is working well, switch to a 3.4 pulley for more power.

Yes the stock plastic intake manifold, but the S/C will be supported by metal brackets separately and the plastic intake will be supported with aluminum as well. The plastic intake is more than capable of handling the boost, I just have to make sure that the super charger is properly supported to be able to handle the load of the belt turning it.

Jaden

Besides, I'm only running E, I could easily get away with the 280-300 non intercooled on E with no crazy timing, but it won't matter because I will be intercooled.

Oh, i miss read what you said about the intercooler at first.’

Yeah the manifold can handle the boost no problem.
Just concerned if it was supporting any load of the blower.
But sounds like you got it all sorted and planned out well. Should post a link to your build page if people want to follow more.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

A turbo can be done the same and probably easier for more people with just a welder. Used turbos and manifolds and oil lines can all be harvested for cheap from a junk yard. Internal wastegate. No BOV for low boost. Old manifolds for welding up a turbo manifold to the stock header.

This isn’t the reality for the vast majority, but even if it was, turbo is better.

For 99.8% of people would never do a DIY FI kit. For .19% of people a diy turbo kit would be way easier and cheaper than a SC kit. In his unique specific case that applies to almost no one but him a DIY SC I guess can be done cheaper and possibly easier.

Think he was more bragging than giving an actual solution for anyone to consider following.

Like you basically said, piecing a turbo kit together off ebay, or with some minor beginner fab work can be done fairly easily and cheaply at least compared to a make shift sc kit. Proper pulley alignment alone could be challenging not throwing belts all the time.