BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Ah, one of these guys.

The V6 Camaro w/ 1LE absolutely destroys our cars by an LOL 14+ seconds in car and drivers lightening lap competition (https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/). Actually, it beats our cars by every single performance metric available. Lol indeed.

It's a good car no doubt. Had me even looking at them used, but I think consumables are a bit more than I'd like.

[Dirty Harry]

I’d get a cheap used twin, you might even get one lightly modified too. Drive that around until the 2nd gen comes along, which you said you had interest in and then upgrade. Best of luck and glad to hear you got a good price for the Cayman.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Ah, one of these guys.

The V6 Camaro w/ 1LE absolutely destroys our cars by an LOL 14+ seconds in car and drivers lightening lap competition (https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/). Actually, it beats our cars by every single performance metric available. Lol indeed.

One of those guys who think numbers tell the whole story of a vehicle.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

One of those guys who think numbers tell the whole story of a vehicle.

Nah, I've driven it too. Just like every reviewer says it's excellent, it really is. GM Performance's chassis development team is one of the best out there.

[ZDan]

Camaro is neat, in it's way. It's also big heavy car, which no amount of "GM chassis magic" will disguise. For *many*, this is no big deal, perhaps not even detectable. For some of us though, going seconds slower in a much smaller and lighter-weight car is just more fun.

Camaro = great car, but not for everyone...

[ninjan00dles]

I honestly think a used 1st gen with FI is a good option for the money. This platform has been out long enough for all of the known issues to be taken care of, and the tunes have the benefit of 5+ years of refinement.

Right now I can buy a FRS transmission for $500 on craigslist. A shortblock from my local dealership is $1900. For comparison to some other cars discussed...

A motorsport AOS for my 987 was $1800 which is considered a consumable part. A remanufactured (Cayman) M97 engine is $20,000. A rod bearing service for a s65 is $2500, throttle body actuators for a e92 are $1100.

Not to mention everything else on a 86 twin is cheaper and easier to DIY (oil changes, brakes, no fancy computer to reset maintenance lights). As good as some of the used and more depreciated Euro cars sound... the fact that a worst case mechanical scenario won't wreck your savings account is nice. And if you track your car that peace of mind has a value to it.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by ninjan00dles

I honestly think a used 1st gen with FI is a good option for the money. This platform has been out long enough for all of the known issues to be taken care of, and the tunes have the benefit of 5+ years of refinement.

Right now I can buy a FRS transmission for $500 on craigslist. A shortblock from my local dealership is $1900. For comparison to some other cars discussed...

A motorsport AOS for my 987 was $1800 which is considered a consumable part. A remanufactured (Cayman) M97 engine is $20,000. A rod bearing service for a s65 is $2500, throttle body actuators for a e92 are $1100.

Not to mention everything else on a 86 twin is cheaper and easier to DIY (oil changes, brakes, no fancy computer to reset maintenance lights). As good as some of the used and more depreciated Euro cars sound... the fact that a worst case mechanical scenario won't wreck your savings account is nice. And if you track your car that peace of mind has a value to it.

That's true. But every single one of these arguments could be made comparing NA/NB/NC Miata's to our cars too haha

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

That's true. But every single one of these arguments could be made comparing NA/NB/NC Miata's to our cars too haha

They are also about 400-500lbs lighter than the average twin. It is true, "Miata Is Always The Answer". LOL

The NA/NB has very decent boost potential. You can piece your own turbo kit together if you want or you can get an entire kit from FlyinMiata. It really is a plug and play application and it is a VERY reliable setup. I have a friend who ran a FM turbo kit for 100K miles with repeated daily abuse. He was @ about 200whp. Cooked a transmission but the engine held together until he sold it. Or another option is to K swap!

The NC, while heavier, is actually a baby RX8 (which is another awesome chassis). I have been reading up about an ecotec 2.5L swap? Not entirely sure of the boost potential of the stock engine though.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Petah78

The NC, while heavier, is actually a baby RX8 (which is another awesome chassis). I have been reading up about an ecotec 2.5L swap? Not entirely sure of the boost potential of the stock engine though.

The MZR/Ecotec is used on a number of race cars I think (also in the BAC Mono for example), so there are lots of Cosworth parts available. You can get a Cosworth engine prebuilt with lots of NA power, or borrow the rods for a boosted application.

[jflogerzi]

Everything has pros and cons. OP just needs to weight them all and make a choice

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Petah78

They are also about 400-500lbs lighter than the average twin. It is true, "Miata Is Always The Answer". LOL

The NA/NB has very decent boost potential. You can piece your own turbo kit together if you want or you can get an entire kit from FlyinMiata. It really is a plug and play application and it is a VERY reliable setup. I have a friend who ran a FM turbo kit for 100K miles with repeated daily abuse. He was @ about 200whp. Cooked a transmission but the engine held together until he sold it. Or another option is to K swap!

The NC, while heavier, is actually a baby RX8 (which is another awesome chassis). I have been reading up about an ecotec 2.5L swap? Not entirely sure of the boost potential of the stock engine though.

It's actually funny that you mention that. In addition to my BRZ, I have a GT2650R NB2 Miata in my garage right now. We didn't do the full FM turbo kit, but we did use their hot and cold parts along with a off the shelf Garrett GT2560R. The car currently makes 200 WHP, but we're hitting the dyno this summer w/ electronic boost control and we're hoping for 240 whp. It's a super fun car, and honestly I have more faith of that engine (which is literally based off an engine designed in the 80's).


If anyone's interested, here's a link to the build:

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

It's actually funny that you mention that. In addition to my BRZ, I have a GT2650R NB2 Miata in my garage right now. We didn't do the full FM turbo kit, but we did use their hot and cold parts along with a off the shelf Garrett GT2560R. The car currently makes 200 WHP, but we're hitting the dyno this summer w/ electronic boost control and we're hoping for 240 whp. It's a super fun car, and honestly I have more faith of that engine (which is literally based off an engine designed in the 80's).





If anyone's interested, here's a link to the build:

So why do u need another toy car..

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

So why do u need another toy car..

Why not? Lives too short to drive boring cars

Nah, the Miata is my brothers. He landed his first job (HP Tuners), and I'm storing it in my garage this winter and maybe summer. While the BRZ and Miata now have very similar power, the driving experience couldn't be more different. That being said I will acquire two fun cars here. Since the rona, my commute has become a complete joke. It's 10 minutes on nice, 45 mph roads and I can work from home whenever I want. No point not to have two fun cars if it fits with your lifestyle.

Originally Posted by Petah78

The NC, while heavier, is actually a baby RX8 (which is another awesome chassis). I have been reading up about an ecotec 2.5L swap? Not entirely sure of the boost potential of the stock engine though.

Man, the NC's are just a great deal now that the NA/NB's have appreciated in value so much. Honestly, I'm not a huge advocate of the 2.5L swap, simply because you go from a completely forged internal motor (09+) to a commuter engine with mostly cast parts. The 09+ NC's handle boost really well with street cars doing up to 400 whp stock block, and reliable track cars doing 250-300 whp. The early transmissions can be the weak link at those power levels though.

[gtpvette]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Ah, one of these guys.

The V6 Camaro w/ 1LE absolutely destroys our cars by an LOL 14+ seconds in car and drivers lightening lap competition (https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/). Actually, it beats our cars by every single performance metric available. Lol indeed.

I am so glad you posted this. In the current C&D they posted a dot chart where dots were price of cars versus times, the same dot chart as in this article. What I wanted to know was what were the 4 models of the light blue dots ($35k-$64K) in the sub 2:55 class. Now I know.

Mustang Shelby GT350R 2016
Corvette 2014
Mustang PP2 2018
Camaro SS 1LE 2017

That base C7 beat a lot of higher priced hardware!!!