First time this happened to me...

[Kunzite]

I wasn't asking trolls, but oh well. If not lap times, what's a "smart" metric when we talk about performance?
Can we even decide on a set of metrics, as if everyone would measure the same thing?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

I wasn't asking trolls, but oh well. If not lap times, what's a "smart" metric when we talk about performance?
Can we even decide on a set of metrics, as if everyone would measure the same thing?

lap times are a good metric. nurburg isnt the track for that. that track being a public road with varying conditions is never going to give consistent laptimes even with the same driver. even if that wasnt the case, with the 70+ turns there is going to be so much room for driver error. im not trolling. with all your questions regarding the validity of the lap time on that track i would think it would be obvious to you that maybe there are better options

[Kunzite]

Sorry, but you seem to anti-GT 86 I can't wonder what are you doing here...
OK, there are better circuits and more results means better chances to obtain relevant data. How is this related with: "...people have fallen in love with since power is not cool anymore and people are all about handling"?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

Sorry, but you seem to anti-GT 86 I can't wonder what are you doing here...
OK, there are better circuits and more results means better chances to obtain relevant data. How is this related with: "...people have fallen in love with since power is not cool anymore and people are all about handling"?

im a huge fan of the car. i just am not a fan of people acting like its superior to a faster, cheaper car. that was clearly the tone that this topic carried.

that comment was was just why i think there has been a gradual shift from 0-60 to the nurburg laptime as far as the new thing that seems to be really important.

[Kunzite]

So you must prove it's inferior to those, right?
We already have the 0-60; so it's quite normal to switch the point of interest towards a more complete metric, i.e. performance on a circuit. Is there anything left to discuss about 0-60, anyway?
Oh, I get it: endlessly complaining about the poor acceleration. That's what a "huge fan" would do

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by fatoni

nurburg times are never really representative of what a car can do. its a stupid metric people have fallen in love with since power is not cool anymore and people are all about handling.
people only really talk trash on the frs here when there are comparisons made (like this one) where frs fanboys are calling cobalt fanboys stupid for liking the much faster car

I agree with you, me personally im not a fan of the "The Ring Or Nothing Mentallity" thats been forming over the last few years....The VIR,Willow Springs,Streets of Willow,and Leguna Seca...are much better gauges to...besides we can actually take our cars to these tracks..

[jurjurson]

Time to get new friends.

[Kunzite]

Just curious, besides you two who else was talking about Nurburgring being the only circuit that matters?
As I see it, it's just a strawman used (together with the 0-60 to circuit timings thing) to call people fanboys and claim they're talking thrash.

On topic, you don't want to know what I'm hearing on Romanian forums. Any 300.000+ km German car is better/faster/more luxurious, every sane person would prefer a SUV. So much malice, because this little car doesn't fit their way of thinking.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by jurjurson

Time to get new friends.

Time to start using that "quote" button...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

So you must prove it's inferior to those, right?
We already have the 0-60; so it's quite normal to switch the point of interest towards a more complete metric, i.e. performance on a circuit. Is there anything left to discuss about 0-60, anyway?
Oh, I get it: endlessly complaining about the poor acceleration. That's what a "huge fan" would do

no. i would rather have the frs much like other people. i drive a miata, before that an ae86, before that a crx. i dont chase speed, i chase fun. while faster is more fun, i just like the fact that slow fun is cheap. i was never setting out to prove the cobalt is the better car. i dont think it it. i just think that it is absolutely worth comparing since as far as performance goes, it walks the frs all day

Originally Posted by Kunzite

Just curious, besides you two who else was talking about Nurburgring being the only circuit that matters?
As I see it, it's just a strawman used (together with the 0-60 to circuit timings thing) to call people fanboys and claim they're talking thrash.

On topic, you don't want to know what I'm hearing on Romanian forums. Any 300.000+ km German car is better/faster/more luxurious, every sane person would prefer a SUV. So much malice, because this little car doesn't fit their way of thinking.

just look at our current car culture. search nurburg and see how many topics come up. i feel like i cant even start talking about cars without hearing either about the ring or top gear.

[JDM_Badge]

Comparing a Cobalt SS to an FR-S just points out different driver preferences. Some people do not care about RWD. I know I do, but in reality most people like the the arguably safer choice. Some people just want the fastest thing they can afford and don't care if it is like riding in a little red wagon going down a hill.

Having owned a 2001 Z24 cavalier at one point (long story, not my choice) I can say that I skipped the Cobalt SS because I wanted something that felt a little more refined handling wise, but I did have some fun times in it's predecessor. I will say that Cavalier did have the window motors go out twice, the sending unit die, and the hub-bearing assemblies replaced five times by five different mechanics. The seats sucked balls. Water kept coming in through the floor. The radio was tied to too many parts of the car electronically. You had to take the entire top of the dash off to change it as well. It had drum rear brakes in the wrong century. The ABS sucked. If you were t-boned at low speed you would die.. sorry what was I saying again.. oh yeah.. I will never buy a GM CAR again unless it is a Vette, and a solid year at that. Hopefully the Cobalt engineering team never met the Cavalier team.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by RebootWindows

This one dude compared it to a celica, is he dumb too ? lol

It pretty much is a RWD 7th gen Celica (with better power under the curve and nearly identical performance overall...).

A Cobalt SS is essentially a SRT-4 clone.