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View Poll Results: Which jab have you had? | |||
Pfizer | 53 | 51.96% | |
Moderna | 27 | 26.47% | |
Johnson & Johnson | 6 | 5.88% | |
AstraZeneca | 4 | 3.92% | |
Novavax | 0 | 0% | |
Sputnik | 1 | 0.98% | |
Convidecia | 0 | 0% | |
Homebrew with a big dose of something special | 11 | 10.78% | |
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll |
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01-13-2021, 05:42 PM | #603 | |
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If you're in the at risk population then socially distance and wear a N95 mask and gloves until you're able to get the vaccine. You bring up asymptomatic carriers but would you mind providing the data on the likelihood of an asymptomatic person transmitting the virus to others? Aside from being suspended what other penalties should come with not getting the vaccine? Banned from flying, not able to shop in stores, unable to go to public events? All for a virus that the majority of people shrug off in a day or two? You say that lawmakers will be forced to act, yet California is going through their worst spike to date and people are still allowed to film movies Are you allowed to get a haircut still or did that get banned again? Also, where are the military ships like the USNS Comfort right now? Where are the emergency hospitals being built? Again, I'm not saying covid isn't real, I'm not saying that people don't die from covid, what I'm saying is that the measures being taken in the name of public safety are unfounded, and not worth the cost that comes with them. |
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01-13-2021, 06:07 PM | #604 | |
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Sure people are hypocrites, a virus doesn't change that. Are you saying that one individual really knows what he is doing so you will always follow his lead? Somehow it seems that you really feel the opposite. If you are using him as an example of an asshole, then his action would be wrong, as in not something you would want to be associated with doing. My understanding of California's problem is that many people just aren't listening to the the regulations. Which seems to be precisely what you are advocating for. Nobody is limiting your right to free speech because of this vaccine or virus. Actions or inactions have consequences and speech invites argument. I again propose that we could settle this with better contact tracing and bringing manslaughter charges against those not taking certain precautions who have a certain likelihood of infecting somebody who has later died of covid-19. |
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01-13-2021, 06:25 PM | #605 | |
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Hell, we amended our laws nearly 30 years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia Has worked well here in sunny Straya
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01-13-2021, 06:42 PM | #606 | ||
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I also want programs in place to keep people from driving drunk Programs to reduce/prevent the opioid epidemic. Fortunately it's actually _easier_ in some ways to confront COVID right now than it is to immediately solve those other problems. Why can't we work at one when we have the opportunity for it?? It's not like addiction where we can't prevent someone who's hooked on it from being desperate to get it by any ways they can.
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01-13-2021, 07:43 PM | #608 |
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I think it's more extreme than just requiring masks and distancing of course. It's more an alternative argument to proactive mandates for mask wearing and distancing than an actual suggestion. It is already illegal to kill somebody through reckless acts, such as driving drunk or pushing them down some stairs. The novel part is just saying that not following pandemic precautions that we all know about is a reckless act. That way we are free to do whatever, but will suffer consequences if we kill somebody without taking appropriate precautions.
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01-13-2021, 08:11 PM | #609 | |
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Or social distancing in airports then being elbow to elbow on the plane 10 minutes later? I would love to hear from all of you? This will be interesting |
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01-13-2021, 08:28 PM | #610 | ||||||
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01-13-2021, 08:51 PM | #611 | |||
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There are also smaller markets that aren't big names like Safeway, Costco, Target that sell toilet paper, paper towels, and other essentials. Those are all still open (though many people don't think to go to them!). Now, while saying that, I will agree there are just as many (hell, even a lot more) that are completely unsupported and have had to close. But let's not ignore that there are a large amount of small businesses that simply do not get the support they need due to most people preferring large, more well-known businesses. As far as your comment about airports, I haven't flown anywhere since last February, which was prior to the pandemic situation really becoming a problem. I've wanted to visit my siblings in LA and Chicago, but have chosen not to take flights to do so. So the airlines care more about their finances and cramming customers in. It's definitely wrong. Though, while I will admit I'm rather uneducated on the subject, the air filtration systems are supposedly quite good. Though personally I'd still say they should be continuing flights with a lower capacity. But that's not up to me. Quote:
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01-13-2021, 09:01 PM | #612 | |
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The filtration systems jus keep recirculating air. I’m looking forward to hearing others responses to these questions. |
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01-13-2021, 09:27 PM | #613 | |
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Airplanes should not be packed, airlines should leave space. But mandates and regulations to enforce that would be limiting their freedom I suppose. I was on huge 777 with less than 80 people going from DFW to Orlando for work. That's the way it should be. Edit, I also work for a small business. We've been doing great, but we aren't really a consumer product kind of company. Last edited by Spuds; 01-13-2021 at 09:41 PM. |
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01-13-2021, 09:34 PM | #614 |
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Do you know what filters do? Viruses are larger than air molecules and are caught by the filters as the air passes through. Hence the "filtration system".
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01-13-2021, 10:07 PM | #615 |
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01-13-2021, 10:22 PM | #616 | ||
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I don't know how California's restrictions compare to other places, but it is miles removed from the lockdowns of early last year. Businesses are open. People are out. People wear masks, but no one is acting like we are in the middle of a pandemic outbreak. When I go on hikes, more people are wearing masks when passing people on the trails. People are still socializing. People are still gathering with family. Most businesses are not closed. It is hard driving down the street to tell what businesses are closed. Our outbreaks, as bad as they are, actually aren't the worst in the nation when adjusted for capita, yet they should be the worst, especially considering the population density and size of areas like LA. Quote:
The likelihood of an asymptomatic person transmitting a virus to someone else ranges from 0-100%. It depends on the situation, so if we are talking about a couple who kisses and exchanges other fluids regularly then it is 100%. If we are talking about people wearing surgical masks who socially distance and briefly meet and don't talk then the odds are very close to 0%. There is everything in between from the person who's mask falls below their nose to the people talking face to face that don't wear a mask to the people that pick their nose, sneeze in their hand then shake the hand of others and everything in between. I think you should know that quantifying such a thing under such a wide range of possible scenarios is virtually impossible, so I'm curious why you would even ask such a ridiculous question. We could do what our founding fathers did when there was a smallpox outbreak and send in the troops to force people to get a vaccine. I don't think that is necessary. Like I said, businesses can do what they want. It is their business, so if they want to mandate a negative COVID test or mandate vaccines then they can. They don't mandate vaccines to fly right now, so I doubt that will change, but that is because we have herd immunity on smallpox and measles and other diseases, so I doubt they will require a vaccine when we reach endemic levels or herd immunity, just like they don't require the flu vaccine to fly. I think you are reaching for extreme examples because you want it to be an all or none scenario, but there is a big difference between requiring vaccines for healthcare workers and requiring vaccines to go to Target. Currently, healthcare workers are required to be vaccinated for MMR, so I don't completely understand the objection. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...fighting-story Our failure is systemic from our government and our institutions to the individuals in our society. We could have acted swiftly and decisively with countermeasures, and we could have stopped this virus and been back to a more normal and open society. Instead, we have this. You create this false dichotomy where we have to trade lives for our economy. First off, lives are precious, and they are priceless, and they are more important than someone's ability to go to a supermarket without having to wear a mask or someone getting to go to a movie theatre or to their favorite restaurant or bar. Moreover, the false dichotomy doesn't have to be the case. Other countries have provided monthly aid to their citizens. Other countries have extended unemployment. Other countries have restricted evictions or foreclosures and provided mortgage relief. Other countries have supported small businesses, so they don't go bankrupt. We could do the same to the same extent, but we haven't done nearly as much. We have a problem issuing one time checks.
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