BRZ STi?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gen3v8

Don`t think that having opposed pistons can clamp better than the sliding calipers. If they had the same size pistons they would be equal.

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying.

The point is that the calipers on the PP BBK are identical in size. Typically the front or leading piston will be smaller than the trailing piston. The idea is that as the pistons bite down, the leading edge will dig into the rotor first. This causes the pad to twist and dive into the rotor, which can result in a harmonic where the pad vibrates, and/or there isn't even pressure on the pad. By having a smaller piston on the front, the pad bites down less in the front, so the pad sits flatter on the rotor.

My Wilwood BBK uses six piston calipers with a smaller lead piston like the Brembo kit and is radially mounted instead of axial mounted (axial is still better than floating).

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Willpower

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse here, but how is it that the price of the stock brakes is at all relevant? The car HAS to come with brakes, so they are included in the price of admission of the base car. It’s not like they are an option I could decline. The Brembos however were an optional upgrade. Buy them as part of the package and they were $1195. If one wanted to reproduce the exact factory package from the manufacturer, MSRP is nearly 6 grand to ME, the CONSUMER, for the parts without labor and a warranty. There ain’t no debating that.
The price of the Brembos compared to the price of the stock brakes for the MANUFACTURER means nothing to me as the consumer. Who cares? I don’t care if Subaru made a dollar, or $1194 on each performance package sold. All I care about is that I was able to get Brembo brakes and a few other goodies on my car for relative chicken feed.

Reframe the conversation. Say they offered a set of wheels for an extra $100 that were 7.5'' instead of 7.0'' and that was it. You could say, "wow, that is the deal of the century. It would cost me $650 to buy a set of 7.5'' rims, and it would cost me another $150+ to get them balance and mounted on the factory tires. What a value! I maybe could get $300-400 if I had sold my old rims, but that takes time and look, I am still saving money. True, these aren't exactly my first choice in wheels, and in fact, I was kind of interested in those 8'' wheels, but these are still a great value."

I think the point is the Brembos they used were a minor, incremental upgrade over the existing calipers, and the price was fair--not a bargain. Like I said, this is definitely cheaper than the aftermarket products are like almost all factory options are, and part of that reason is that instead of installing the factory part on the car, they installed the upgraded part. Said differently, you sold your stock braking system back to Subaru, and Subaru installed these instead. You didn't buy a BBK for $1,200. You bought the stock brake kit for X then paid $1,200 on top of that to upgrade.

We can do the same thing with the trims too. My limited was only several thousand more than the base premium, but I got the following, and that seems like a real value when it would have cost many times that value to get those things afterwords. In fact, do you know how expensive those seats are? To upgrade both seats would have been thousands alone. Deal of the century :

- Alcantara seat inserts with leather bolsters All-Weather Package (dual-mode heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors)
- Dual illuminated visor vanity mirrors
- Dual-zone automatic climate control system
- Fog lights
- Front door courtesy lights
- Keyless Access and Start with illuminated engine start/stop button
- Rear trunk spoiler (body color)
- Security system

[ZDan]

Brakes are a significant upgrade, PP is a bargain :P

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Brakes are a significant upgrade, PP is a bargain :P

Hahaha! Yes!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Brakes are a significant upgrade, PP is a bargain :P

How are they an upgrade? Red paint?

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

How are they an upgrade? Red paint?

They weren’t! They were actually re-worked drum units off of a ‘69 Impala. And that red “paint”? It was just crayon. Why that sh*t came off the first time I got em heated up a little. Trash, trash brakes. Sticking my left foot out the door stops the car quicker. There. That better?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Willpower

They weren’t! They were actually re-worked drum units off of a ‘69 Impala. And that red “paint”? It was just crayon. Why that sh*t came off the first time I got em heated up a little. Trash, trash brakes. Sticking my left foot out the door stops the car quicker. There. That better?

Wrong again. They were caliper covers.

[gen3v8]

And only $50 more

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Wrong again. They were caliper covers.

Hahaha! Can’t believe these actually are a thing.

Also, if I knew you personally, I swear you’d get these for Christmas at this point.

[Willpower]

For the heck of it couldn’t resist checking the price of these. My God. No. No, you wouldn’t get these for Christmas Irace86.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

How are they an upgrade? Red paint?

Much bigger rotors, much bigger pads, less heat for a given level of brake usage and much greater ability to reject that heat quickly.
Much stiffer fixed caliper, combines favorably with less clamping force required for given level of braking, => much better pedal feel and reduced pedal travel.
Much easier pad swaps!
Also looks badasss....

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Much bigger rotors, much bigger pads, less heat for a given level of brake usage and much greater ability to reject that heat quickly.
Much stiffer fixed caliper, combines favorably with less clamping force reqired for given level of braking, => much better pedal feel and reduced pedal travel.
Much easier pad swaps!
Also looks badasss....

Yes better for tracking, but DD stock is fine. There was no PP in 16, but I would have gotten it if I waited a year. It’s a no brainer, just like the limited.

[ZDan]

Preface this by saying that I have worked with Brembo in Italy, Continental (Teves) in Germany, and with J.Juan in Barcelona developing brake and ABS systems for 2-wheelers. Structural engineer but at this job I was also responsible for general vehicle development including brake performance.
Anyhoo...

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The point is that the calipers on the PP BBK are identical in size. Typically the front or leading piston will be smaller than the trailing piston. The idea is that as the pistons bite down, the leading edge will dig into the rotor first. This causes the pad to twist and dive into the rotor, which can result in a harmonic where the pad vibrates, and/or there isn't even pressure on the pad. By having a smaller piston on the front, the pad bites down less in the front, so the pad sits flatter on the rotor.

Yeah, main reason is the moment due to pad/rotor friction acts to load up the leading edge of the pad and unload the trailing edge. You will usually balance this with a smaller-diameter leading piston to get more even pressure between pad and rotor along pad length. It's really not a huge deal though. I did notice a *slight* front-to-rear taper wear when I changed out my track pads, but very slight and of course can be fixed by swapping inside/outside pads next install.

My Wilwood BBK uses six piston calipers with a smaller lead piston like the Brembo kit and is radially mounted instead of axial mounted (axial is still better than floating).

They may tout them as "radial mounted", but how is that bracket mounted to the upright? Axial bolts. Actually this setup is marginally *less* stiff as you have an extra bolted joint (the "radial mount" part) in addition to the factory axial mount bolts.

For overall bolted-up caliper asembly stiffness, I would bet on the factory PP setup...

[weederr33]

My car came with them. I like the PP brakes. the only thing I don't like is my wheel options are limited.