Manual vs Automatic (Help!)

[Ultramaroon]

I double clutch all the time without even thinking about it, not because it's a challenge. I do it when it's cold and I miss the spool-down for second gear, or when I have to downshift. So many arguments about "it's a modern transmission, syncros, blahblahblah." If you want to do it, sure. If not, don't. If you want an automatic, great. Manuals are pure nostalgia at this point.

Rear wheel drive is way more important to me than the flavor of the gearbox. RWD+MT is just fun bonus.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

How to trigger car communities 101: "Auto or Manual, which one is better?"

I'm afraid that my little necro was way more successful than I anticipated.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm afraid that my little necro was way more successful than I anticipated.

It's all good fun. After all, we are a group that loves to agree to disagree.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I double clutch all the time without even thinking about it, not because it's a challenge. I do it when it's cold and I miss the spool-down for second gear, or when I have to downshift. So many arguments about "it's a modern transmission, syncros, blahblahblah." If you want to do it, sure. If not, don't. If you want an automatic, great. Manuals are pure nostalgia at this point.

Rear wheel drive is way more important to me than the flavor of the gearbox. RWD+MT is just fun bonus.

I double clutch mainly because I beat the crap out of one of my tranys way back and could only downshift if I double clutched. It's just become a habit I can't break. Even though I don't think about it, I still enjoy the crap out of it. It's also the only way to get it back in first at higher speeds which is critical when autoxing.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm afraid that my little necro was way more successful than I anticipated.

I'm excited to see what you necro next.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ermax

I double clutch mainly because I beat the crap out of one of my tranys way back and could only downshift if I double clutched. It's just become a habit I can't break. Even though I don't think about it, I still enjoy the crap out of it. It's also the only way to get it back in first at higher speeds which is critical when autoxing.

Fellow owner was riding along with me during a "spirited run in Mexico" when I downshifted into first for a corner at speed. He nearly shit his pants, "You can do that?!"

Not gonna lie. It was a proud moment.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I think the first dozen or so times a chef will be excited and feel accomplished about the process of making a perfect pasta (process of achieving result), after that the enjoyment comes from the response and enjoyable experience of the happy customer (end result)

MT is the process of achieving, AT has same end result.

I think this is the crux of the difference - I enjoy to process, not just the end result. I've seen this a lot in discussion on tools (mainly woodworking, but also car related tools) - some say use whatever gets the job done. Others prefer to get the best tools they can afford. The first kind of person cares more about the end result than the process, while the second kind of person care as much or maybe more for the process as for the end result.

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Cant speak to what you specifically do or don't enjoy, but generally speaking there are plenty of things to enjoy about spirited driving and experiencing what the car has to offer that have nothing to do with what the clutch might do. Especially on this platform being so handling oriented.

For me it does. Operating the clutch and rowing the gears is as much a part of the driving experience for me as turning the steering wheel. For you it is not, but I think you are disingenuous to say "generally speaking..." - better say "for me...", since you trying to convey your subjective preference.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

For me it does. Operating the clutch and rowing the gears is as much a part of the driving experience for me as turning the steering wheel. For you it is not, but I think you are disingenuous to say "generally speaking..." - better say "for me...", since you trying to convey your subjective preference.

My quote “generally speaking there are plenty of things to enjoy about spirited driving and experiencing what the car has to offer that have nothing to do with what the clutch might do”

So the ONLY thing that is enjoyable about this car involves a clutch?
You think the majority of owners think this?

Or do you think most owners probably have a dozen or more reasons aside from the clutch that they enjoy about this car?
Hence “generally speak”

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

My quote “generally speaking there are plenty of things to enjoy about spirited driving and experiencing what the car has to offer that have nothing to do with what the clutch might do”

So the ONLY thing that is enjoyable about this car involves a clutch?
You think the majority of owners think this?

Or do you think most owners probably have a dozen or more reasons aside from the clutch that they enjoy about this car?
Hence “generally speak”

Yes, if the clutch was not present, it would definitely hamper my enjoyment of the car. Would I still be able to enjoy an automatic Twin? Sure. But you are implying that once mastered, the manual transmission contributes nothing to the enjoyment of the car. For me, it does. For you, it doesn't.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

My quote “generally speaking there are plenty of things to enjoy about spirited driving and experiencing what the car has to offer that have nothing to do with what the clutch might do”

So the ONLY thing that is enjoyable about this car involves a clutch?
You think the majority of owners think this?

Or do you think most owners probably have a dozen or more reasons aside from the clutch that they enjoy about this car?
Hence “generally speak”

It's not just the clutch. When braking for a turn it involves both feet operating all three pedals, one arm on the wheel and the other moving the shifter. In an auto it involves one foot on one pedal, both hands on the wheel and if you want to add a little more fun you can add some button presses. The computer takes care of blipping the throttle and changing the gears.


My main reason for posting was someone saying something like "so you really think pressing a clutch is what makes it more engaging". No... it's a lot more involved than that.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Fellow owner was riding along with me during a "spirited run in Mexico" when I downshifted into first for a corner at speed. He nearly shit his pants, "You can do that?!"

Not gonna lie. It was a proud moment.

I love it when I hear someone say the Twins have a "lock out" on 1st gear over 20mph. I also get a kick out of all the threads talking about not being able to downshift when it's cold. Take the syncros out of the equation and this transmission is like butter. You can lightly move it with a single finger.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by ermax

There is way more to a manual than simply pushing the clutch and moving the lever. I mean that is the bare minimum but there is more to it if you want to get into it more. Heal toe downshifts and properly matched downshifts add a lot of fun to the task. Sure an auto can downshift while you are braking with the push of a button but that isn’t as challenging or rewarding which is where the fun part comes in. If you are the type that holds the clutch in while slowing down then your really not doing the things that make it fun. I can totally see how someone like that wouldn’t understand the obsession with manuals. There is also double clutching if you want something else to learn. It’s very rewarding when you do a downshift and feel how effortlessly the shifter moves without loading up the syncros. Even into 1st gear at 40mph.

When people say a manual is more engaging it’s these sorts of things they are referring to. Your average driver who drove their dads manual civic one day and think they are experts on manuals have no clue.

Totally get the challenge and feel of getting that shift right. But that is a preference, and very few do that all the time. Hence, the AT made more sense for me as a car that has to do other things.

In my years and I mean years of commenting in threads like this, it has always been the AT guys defending themselves because the MT guys are so against it. It’s literally coke vs Pepsi, but will likely never end. Over on Rennlist it’s not as bad because that PDK is something. Maybe that’s what we need a PDK swap.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ermax

I love it when I hear someone say the Twins have a "lock out" on 1st gear over 20mph. I also get a kick out of all the threads talking about not being able to downshift when it's cold. Take the syncros out of the equation and this transmission is like butter. You can lightly move it with a single finger.

Like a pretty girl. Treat her right and she's yours.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by ermax

It's not just the clutch. When braking for a turn it involves both feet operating all three pedals, one arm on the wheel and the other moving the shifter. In an auto it involves one foot on one pedal, both hands on the wheel and if you want to add a little more fun you can add some button presses. The computer takes care of blipping the throttle and changing the gears.


My main reason for posting was someone saying something like "so you really think pressing a clutch is what makes it more engaging". No... it's a lot more involved than that.

Both feet operating both pedals, one arm on the wheel and the other moving shifter, but yes you are right braking is a good time for me to press a few buttons to adjust my AC settings, or maybe de fog the windows, and occasionally even change radio stations.