All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Actually, I am sure that Toyota would love all its customers to buy USD 50k Supras instead of USD 20-30k Corollas or Camrys. The profit margin per car is probably better - maybe. But of course, they know their sports cars will never be large volume cars, so they are better off making $500 per Corolla if they can sell a million Corollas than making $2000 per Supra if they can only sell 10,000 Supras.

It’s the low volumes that make it hard for ‘affordable’ sports cars to be highly profitable. Individual margin per car is probably no worse, and often a lot better, than their mainstream models. Even at the top end of the market, the exotic sports car manufacturers like Porsche, Jaguar, Lamborghini, and now Ferrari, who have very healthy margins baked into every car, felt the need to diversify and start selling ‘super SUVs’ to help pad out their profit columns, simply because the volume is in SUVs rather than sports cars.

It’s sad, and it means sports cars are always an endangered species nowadays, especially from the mainstream brands whose real volume is SUVs, trucks, utes, vans etc. Even sedans and hatchbacks, staples of regular car design, are becoming increasingly niche products as SUVs and dual cab utes/trucks take over as the default car type. Nothing can stop them taking over our roads, it seems!

They want you to buy BOTH was what I was saying.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Folks love to knock the Corolla, but it’s a car that Toyota has pushed forward significantly in the last decade or so. My father had a 2009 XRS (the “sporty” Corolla with firmer shocks, springs etc.), and it was a handling dog compared to even a 2020 non-sport edition I recently had as a rental, a car which felt far more upscale and (dare I say it) European in its blend of ride and handling characteristics.

Who was knocking the Corolla? It is their bread and butter car.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Red-86

It’s sad, and it means sports cars are always an endangered species nowadays, especially from the mainstream brands whose real volume is SUVs, trucks, utes, vans etc. Even sedans and hatchbacks, staples of regular car design, are becoming increasingly niche products as SUVs and dual cab utes/trucks take over as the default car type. Nothing can stop them taking over our roads, it seems!

And sporty models compete on sheer power, at the expense of weight, agility and driver engagement. This is especially true of EVs, which is a sad prospect for driving enthusiasts. EVs bring some great advantages for us - very low center of gravity, flexible packaging allowing better suspension geometries and great power delivery. But nobody is making small lightweight fun EVs yet, and I fear they never will.

[TheDonEffect]

Yeah January will be here before we know it, and the GR86 will debut. IIRC, it's supposed to debut at the TAS in January right?

Anway, I'm more anxious about the pricing to see what's going to be offered, I'm still holding out hope that the PP will be offered despite all signs indicating that it won't be. Dumb move imo on their part, unless they're cooking up something special.

[Lantanafrs2]

^After financing charges etc they make a lot more than 500 bucks on a Corolla.

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not enough of them and not enough cash. There is little money to be made off the enthusiasts on a low profit niche car (including the Supra). They just hope that we will all switch to a nice Camry or Corolla when we grow up.

While growing up, had both a Corolla & Camry. Want an 86 to re-live my childhood!

Originally Posted by Red-86

Actually, I am sure that Toyota would love all its customers to buy USD 50k Supras instead of USD 20-30k Corollas or Camrys. The profit margin per car is probably better - maybe. But of course, they know their sports cars will never be large volume cars, so they are better off making $500 per Corolla if they can sell a million Corollas than making $2000 per Supra if they can only sell 10,000 Supras.

Actually, the real profit margins are in the Service Departments. I'm not saying that there's no profit in sales but a good service manager makes way more than a good car salesman.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by StE92ve

While growing up, had both a Corolla & Camry. Want an 86 to re-live my childhood!






Actually, the real profit margins are in the Service Departments. I'm not saying that there's no profit in sales but a good service manager makes way more than a good car salesman.

The real, real, profit is in the financing and extras such as load insurance, extended warranties, protection packages, etc. A good finance manager will blow the total pay of a service manager away.
It is what my wife has done for 25 years so I know this as a fact.

[spike021]

Apparently it'll find its way into the latest Gymkhana, and based on this clip it sounds pretty good (to me anyway):

https://twitter.com/subaru_usa/statu...37586334298112

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Who was knocking the Corolla? It is their bread and butter car.

That was a general comment on car talk, not directed at anyone here.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by spike021

Apparently it'll find its way into the latest Gymkhana, and based on this clip it sounds pretty good (to me anyway):

https://twitter.com/subaru_usa/statu...37586334298112

I wonder if most of what we're hearing there is the sound from the track car seen in the second half of that video, when it comes into the shot the sound doesn't really change... hope that is not the case as it sounds great.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

That was a general comment on car talk, not directed at anyone here.

Ahhhh well they are dumb then. Without the Corolla there would be no other Toyota cars. It is the one that pays the bills. Well the Camry pitch's in for rent every once in a while.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

But nobody is making small lightweight fun EVs yet, and I fear they never will.

Yea, we're a long way from that, particularly if you want to drive more than the length of a football field.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yea, we're a long way from that, particularly if you want to drive more than the length of a football field.

I don't think there's a technical limitation, just need to focus on sporty requirements - lightweight, handling over power. The original Tesla Roadster was going (somewhat) in that direction - based on a lightweight roadster, not overboard with power or range (although I would be perfectly fine with even less power). It weighed only a little more than the Twins and by all accounts retained quite a bit of the Elise's handling.
With the current innovation in battery tech and aerodynamics, I could easily see a 40 KWh two seat EV focusing on handling weighing even less than the Roadster, while still giving more than 200 miles of range and still being faster than the Twins (which is frankly all the I'd want), all the while costing on par with a Model 3 or less.
Yet the new Roadster will gonna be a huge luxury barge with way too much battery, way too much power and probably way too much weight (some places claim 4400 lbs, but there's nothing official). Not to mention the price tag...

On the other hand, it does make sense for manufacturers to focus on either bread-and-butter models (which bring money through scale) or high end models (which bring money through large margins). My fear is that the market will get even more accustomed to these heavy and fast barges, and nobody will want to buy a "slow" EV, hence manufacturers won't make them. Oh well, maybe Mazda will make an EV Miata...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I don't think there's a technical limitation, just need to focus on sporty requirements - lightweight, handling over power. The original Tesla Roadster was going (somewhat) in that direction - based on a lightweight roadster, not overboard with power or range (although I would be perfectly fine with even less power). .

Yea, the Tesla Roadster 1 did weigh less than I thought, but also was just barely in the acceptable range zone for me at 244 Miles (EPA).

I think a sports car needs a much greater EPA range to be practical. Let's face it, you aren't likely to drive it in a "standard" way which means the practical range is likely less than published.

I'm sure that the 600+ range for the Roadster 2 is really so it will have a battery large enough to support the power dump required to meet the sportier specs.

In the end, I agree with you, I'd love to see a small, sporty EV with a 300 mile real-world aggressively driven mile range, and a 100 mile practical track range.

@Ohio Enthusiast, I modified the last paragraph after you originally thanked this)