All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[wbradley]

I respect people's opinions but have u ever heard an Aston Martin DB9 v12?

I tapped the pedal while it was sitting in the garage and it literally startled me.

Then there's a 62 resto mod Vette with an LS3 sitting next to it. I didnt start it.

This is at my sister's place in AZ.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All around the car is slightly bigger, heavier, more powerful and more up to date. None of the changes are are massive. This is a GOOD thing as myself and others were afraid they were going to take it in the mass market direction a that would have resulted in a radically different car. Unfortunately they sort of took it in the opposite direction and narrowed the target demographic. The overall design is cluttered and disjointed with different design aspects that conflict with each other. The whole front looks like it belongs on a different car and was just tacked onto basically a plain Jane rear.

All those vents and the inclusion of the oil cooler still lead, at least me, to believe they had heat issues with the FA24. They add weight, complexity and cost that the marketing spin of "more down force yo" just doesn't support the power and expected speeds of the car. There is more of a story to those vents than they will ever tell us. One of the beautiful things of the first gen was that the body design was smooth and "clean" making for a blank canvas for those that wished to modify. The new styling with the already protruding front fenders, the side "wings" (their words not mine) and whale tale trunk all actual body panels means there is already a painting on that canvas and people will need to paint over it and it's restrictions. No doubt the aftermarket will find ways to do this but I predict some pretty goofy looking finished projects with people trying work around what is there. Of course there are going to be plenty that love it as it is but we are back to that narrower demographic thing since it is much more of a "take it or leave it" design.

Not sure about the "passion" thing though. This version seems to be more of a build by the numbers and what does marketing think project than the first time around. It is much more of a case of making it fit with the rest of the Subaru lineup than the first gen design ever was. Things as basic as the "make the tail lights the same as all our other cars" all add up to a distinctly Subaru look. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but but is a different direction than the first gen "screw what the rest of the line up looks like this is distinct" designs. To me that is more of a car built by the book and even if improved it doesn't take passion to do that.

Now that engine. There will be piles of people saying "still not enough power". If so many screamed the FA20 should make "at least 300" to be any good they are not going to be satisfied with a 15% bump. If the loss to the wheels is about the same as the FA20 we are looking at about 190 to 200HP to the wheels. The larger displacement however will bring the torque on earlier. If all remains equal with gearing and diff this will make a much peppier car off the line and should satisfy (it won't but it should) most street driving needs. It will most certainly be an "improvement" over the current gen but it will not turn the car into a Mustang beating drag racer. The huge (yes it is huge) jump in compression ratio does concern me a bit. They may have pushed the engine so far that getting much more out of it may be interesting. Those with access to high end fuel and E85 can probably get significant gains with a simple tune and all stock parts. Those without are going to have a rough time. With that high a ratio, on anything below 93 octane, the car is going to pull timing and adjust fuel mixture so hard you will be lucky to get anything close to the rated power out of it much less add power. The risk of pre ignition at that ratio is just too great. Of course people will do the standard feel good mods such as light weight pullies, intake manifold spacers, etc but getting more air and fuel through the engine isn't going to resolve the need for the ECU to do what it needs to do to prevent knock and keep all the rods inside the block where they belong. The fact that the turbo version of this engine only runs at a 10.6:1 and and only makes 32 more horses is telling. Of course all this goes away for those with easy access to E85. They can probably do wonderful things with that engine.

All in all I know that I am accused of being "negative", a "hater" and just "justifying buying a First Gen" because I have not bowed to my knees and kissed Subaru's ass for this new Gen but in reality I feel it is a logical and appropriate next step. It is actually all I would have hoped it would be and in a good part what I predicted for the last 4 years. I was very afraid that it would be hybrid or butchered for mass market appeal and it wasn't. At one point there was the very real risk it would not be made at all and that would have been the real tragedy! That said I would not be interested in buying one unless it was the only option on the market. The styling just turns me right off and the improvements in the engine, stiffness, interior, etc all address complaints that I never had with the first gen. The 2017 updates actually created what I felt were the tweaks that made me happy. Oh, other than that damned stupid, amp bypassing, tin can sounding, useless hone hearing, piece of total trash, they can shove it up their $%#, horrible head unit they picked up at a clearance sale or something and threw in the 2020s.

One thing thats funny about the 2nd generation, no one has driven it yet, so the multitude of opinions saying that its so much better it just all based on paper stats. It could drive like dog, just like the 370z.

But yeah, you're such a hater dude omg. Juuuusttt chiiiiillll brooo

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Does your wife look bad because there are models that look better?

Does every car that is not a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini inherently look bad too?

I like the sound of my car. I know the Subie or Porsche fanboys would argue the contrary.

You are entitled to your subjective opinion of course.

When it comes to 4 or 6 cylinder cars I prefer the sound of ANY boxer engine. It has a quirkiness to it that inline ones just lack.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

You know, i might be leaning more towards refinement nowadays but i think the 2nd gen fits the bill for what i want out of the 86/BRZ. All the changes sound like it makes for a better 86/BRZ. I didnt have any glaring dealbreaker issues with the first gen either.

Plus even if it does seem like its built by committee, the blueprint they followed was the first gen, so unless they drastically changed something about the car, it doesn't seem like it'll stray too far off what the first gen represented.

I just use the designed by committee end of things to explain my personal dislike of the disjointed styling not as a condemnation of the overall results.

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

One thing thats funny about the 2nd generation, no one has driven it yet, so the multitude of opinions saying that its so much better it just all based on paper stats. It could drive like dog, just like the 370z.

But yeah, you're such a hater dude omg. Juuuusttt chiiiiillll brooo

Yes driving will be the tell tale for each individual. Certainly not the end all for overall judgement though since if I went by all the early video reviews of the 13 I would never have even bought the car back then since it is so slow, the torque drops off into negative numbers, you can't hear yourself think for the noise, the tries slide around al the time and overall it should have been an $18,000 car!
There is so much we don't know but based on the marketing hype and very limited stats we have seen I am confident that my thoughts will be verified. At least to me.
You really need to visit the paper racer heaven "bestest engine ever ever builded" thread for a fun time!

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Car good
Not huge changes
Engine need prove self
Ugly (subjective)
Don't want

Needs more ductwork.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I respect people's opinions but have u ever heard an Aston Martin DB9 v12?

I tapped the pedal while it was sitting in the garage and it literally startled me.

Then there's a 62 resto model Vette with an LS3 sitting next to it. I didnt start it.

This is at my sister's place in AZ.

I drove this and this and this on one of those driving experience days. I had fun but they were ehh. 6L V12 in the Aston needed an aftermarket exhaust. The Ferrari F430 sounded best by far, but none of them were so good as to justify their price; ie; they weren’t 10x the vehicle as my BRZ. In fact, I prefer my car over all of them. More the whole experience and not just the sound.

Many engines have the potential to sound better, but I wouldn’t paint a brush that all boxers sound like crap or all ______ sounds like crap and that all V8+ engines sound amazing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bcj

Needs more ductwork.

Attachment 195267

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is actually all I would have hoped it would be and in a good part what I predicted for the last 4 years. I was very afraid that it would be hybrid or butchered for mass market appeal and it wasn't. At one point there was the very real risk it would not be made at all and that would have been the real tragedy! That said I would not be interested in buying one unless it was the only option on the market. The styling just turns me right off and the improvements in the engine, stiffness, interior, etc all address complaints that I never had with the first gen. .

I'm right there with you, everything they did to the car except the external changes are what I would have wanted them to do. Fingers crossed Toyota comes to the rescue on that, but we'll see.

In the end, my next car won't likely be an 86 anyway, because I like to move around, and if I wanted to keep the same car, I'd keep the one I have.

[Dadhawk]

For all those talking about engine note, and will still be buying cars in 15 years, I guess you are going to be sorely disappointed. Let's face it, ICE engine notes are going to get worse, and eventually will do a soft fade into history. Then you'll be able to pick any note you want.

Might as well just get used to it now.

That's easy for me because I'm engine "tone deaf". All I hear for the most part is decibel levels, and I'd just as soon not hear it.

[Willpower]

Nice rides and nice to know you still prefer your BRZ! A car doesn’t have to be high power or high dollar to be a boatload of fun.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I drove this and this and this on one of those driving experience days. I had fun but they were ehh. 6L V12 in the Aston needed an aftermarket exhaust. The Ferrari F430 sounded best by far, but none of them were so good as to justify their price; ie; they weren’t 10x the vehicle as my BRZ. In fact, I prefer my car over all of them. More the whole experience and not just the sound.

Many engines have the potential to sound better, but I wouldn’t paint a brush that all boxers sound like crap or all ______ sounds like crap and that all V8+ engines sound amazing.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Willpower

Nice rides and nice to know you still prefer your BRZ! A car doesn’t have to be high power or high dollar to be a boatload of fun.

Well, my car is supercharged with estimated 350whp.

They were all automatics. They all felt huge, but the Aston Martin was a boat. Very comfortable and the power was butter smooth, but it was a luxury GT cruiser way more than a light weight sports car, so it was jot really enjoyable. The weight and roll in the corners was horrendous.

The Lambo was powerful but lazy, big and dull. The interior was blocky and bland. The leather everywhere was nice, but it just felt like I was wearing a large leather jacket. Bland.

The Lambo was better than the Ferrari in terms of build quality and button layout. The Ferrari felt a little too ostentatious on the inside like someone went crazy with the aftermarket carbon fiber and buttons. The Ferrari felt smaller. The ride was super smooth but sharpened up when pushed, so best of both worlds, but still more numb than I like from a sports car. More GT.

The BRZ is small, wraps around me, has sensible controls, isn’t trying to be something wild or what it is not, looks good, has good power even compared to them, manual, slides around, makes me feel connected to the experience, etc. I could go on.

To circle back around, I would even say my car sounds better than the stock Lambo and Aston. They were too muted. Not the Ferrari.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Well, my car is supercharged with estimated 350whp.
.

"Estimated"? So someplace between 200 and 350 then.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"Estimated"? So someplace between 200 and 350 then.

You ass. That made me chuckle.lol

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"Estimated"? So someplace between 200 and 350 then.

I would say depending on Dyno type

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