Subaru previews next-generation BRZ, announces November 18th unveiling date

[Guru Woodman]

Not for Europe

[wbradley]

They say it will "probably" have that engine/power and where are they getting 252 HP turbo from? What source? That engine is 260 HP in the Ascent.

Who is feeding this info? If they don't say the info is from Subaru, it only further reinforces that auto journalism is not really journalism. Like a chiropractor isn't really a doctor.

And too bad if Europe didn't support the platform. I still dont know what new car is competitive price wise in European markets, but seriously what is even close? I'm not counting hot hatches except maybe from BMW.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by soundman98

and i'm off to look at importing FTO's again...

From a time, long long ago, when Mitsubishi still knew how to make good looking, sporty cars. Before they gave up completely to focus on nasty, ugly SUVs.

God I miss the 1990s JDM sportscar era. So many options and choices back then, RWD, AWD, FWD, small, medium, large, cheap and cheerful through to supercars. All with Japanese build quality and reliability. Today we just have the MX-5, the twins, the 370/400Z, the Zupra, then two increasingly irrelevant supercars in the GT-R and NSX. Back then we had the FTO, Eclipse, GTO, MX-5, MX-6, RX-7, Celica, Supra, Silvia, 300ZX, Skyline GT-R, Integra, Prelude, CRX, S2000, NSX... the good old days when Japanese brands made multiple sportscars instead of offering just one, if any at all.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

They say it will "probably" have that engine/power and where are they getting 252 HP turbo from? What source? That engine is 260 HP in the Ascent.

Who is feeding this info? If they don't say the info is from Subaru, it only further reinforces that auto journalism is not really journalism. Like a chiropractor isn't really a doctor.

And too bad if Europe didn't support the platform. I still dont know what new car is competitive price wise in European markets, but seriously what is even close? I'm not counting hot hatches except maybe from BMW.

The 252 turbo was the Bestcar magazine guess way back in 2019. Everybody ran with that number for a while. Then it went up. Then it went down. Then it went down again. They have guessed so many numbers now that no matter what it is people here (we know who they are) will scream "see they were right!"

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The Cayman S with the 2.5 H4 is arguably the faster and better car to get than the GTS with the 4.0 H6. Between the tuning potential and the low end torque, it will perform better, especially considering the long gears, but it would be hard to pass up a high revving NA H6, even if it is less usable just for the character, sound, NA response and need to work the motor.

Comes back to what you want from a sportscar. Max performance or the total sensory experience, including engine note and character. For me it is a no brainer - I’m no racecar driver, and any Cayman comfortably exceeds the limits of my ability, so I’ll take the NA H6 and glory in that beautiful 6 cylinder howl.

[soundman98]

notice the date of this article. October 8th, citing that they spoke directly with Subaru UK’s new managing director John Hurtig. no europe 86 is nothing new, the others just hadn't heard it yet.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publ...th-suvs/205325

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

From a time, long long ago, when Mitsubishi still knew how to make good looking, sporty cars. Before they gave up completely to focus on nasty, ugly SUVs.

God I miss the 1990s JDM sportscar era. So many options and choices back then, RWD, AWD, FWD, small, medium, large, cheap and cheerful through to supercars. All with Japanese build quality and reliability. Today we just have the MX-5, the twins, the 370/400Z, the Zupra, then two increasingly irrelevant supercars in the GT-R and NSX. Back then we had the FTO, Eclipse, GTO, MX-5, MX-6, RX-7, Celica, Supra, Silvia, 300ZX, Skyline GT-R, Integra, Prelude, CRX, S2000, NSX... the good old days when Japanese brands made multiple sportscars instead of offering just one, if any at all.

Forgot some. You may not have had two of them there though?





And what I had

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Forgot some. You may not have had two of them there though?

I mentioned that one, but I used the JDM name, GTO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_GTO

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

I mentioned that one, but I used the JDM name, GTO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_GTO

Ah yes I missed it since I was looking for 3000!

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by C4RBON

I certainly don't expect it to weigh less. I'll be happy if it is less than 100lbs heavier. Most cars get heavier and bigger in each subsequent generation. The ND stands out for getting smaller and lighter. The 370Z was also lighter than the 350Z when it launched (comparing similar trim levels). Hopefully we get some published weight specs on the 18th.

My gut instinct is that they will keep the weight almost identical to the current twins. That was always a goal for this car from the beginning while being cost efficient. I’m sure they have looked at the ND Miata and all the steps Mazda took to keep weight down. None of it is that expensive if Mazda can affordably price the ND. I mean Toyota has been leading with composites and carbon composites, I would be shocked if some of that didn’t make its way into the twins. Or at the very least on higher spec models.


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[Spuds]

Originally Posted by JesseG

My gut instinct is that they will keep the weight almost identical to the current twins. That was always a goal for this car from the beginning while being cost efficient. I’m sure they have looked at the ND Miata and all the steps Mazda took to keep weight down. None of it is that expensive if Mazda can affordably price the ND. I mean Toyota has been leading with composites and carbon composites, I would be shocked if some of that didn’t make its way into the twins. Or at the very least on higher spec models.


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Here's the problem, add power/torque/performance, add weight and structure, and supporting equipment. That structure is expensive if you use manufacturing techniques and materials to make it light. The twins are light BECAUSE they didn't focus on performance. If there is going to be greater numeric performance, you are going to be getting a trade-off somewhere. The Cayman, multiple times the cost of an 86 with only 2 seats and less cargo, still weighs ~200lb more than the gen1 twin.

On the other hand, if there is no performance increase, it's going to be hard to get new customers. Add in the idea of possible performance variants though, and now you need a beefier supporting structure.

Also crash protection etc will drive weight up as well.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Here's the problem, add power/torque/performance, add weight and structure, and supporting equipment. That structure is expensive if you use manufacturing techniques and materials to make it light. The twins are light BECAUSE they didn't focus on performance. If there is going to be greater numeric performance, you are going to be getting a trade-off somewhere. The Cayman, multiple times the cost of an 86 with only 2 seats and less cargo, still weighs ~200lb more than the gen1 twin.

On the other hand, if there is no performance increase, it's going to be hard to get new customers. Add in the idea of possible performance variants though, and now you need a beefier supporting structure.

Also crash protection etc will drive weight up as well.

Sure if you add power that usually increases weight, unless you are looking at cars in the exotic territory. I think, and just my opinion, that Toyota/Subie will use some weight savings tricks that won’t cost a lot. And maybe that will only offset any performance upgrades, so we end up with a net zero weight difference. Also, if this ends up on Subaru’s global platform (don’t yell at me Tcoat ) there are weight savings in that chassis, and a stiffer structure.

Look, I’m being realistic about how much can be expected of the 2nd gen twins. And I really don’t want any radical changes. More torque would be SO nice, continue with the more compliant ride of the later model 1st gen cars, and maybe upgrade the interior a little. I will be very happy. Oh, and improve the 2nd gear synchro!!!


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[Spuds]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Sure if you add power that usually increases weight, unless you are looking at cars in the exotic territory. I think, and just my opinion, that Toyota/Subie will use some weight savings tricks that won’t cost a lot. And maybe that will only offset any performance upgrades, so we end up with a net zero weight difference. Also, if this ends up on Subaru’s global platform (don’t yell at me Tcoat ) there are weight savings in that chassis, and a stiffer structure.

Look, I’m being realistic about how much can be expected of the 2nd gen twins. And I really don’t want any radical changes. More torque would be SO nice, continue with the more compliant ride of the later model 1st gen cars, and maybe upgrade the interior a little. I will be very happy. Oh, and improve the 2nd gear synchro!!!


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I bet the weight will be somewhere between 2900 and 3100lb.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JesseG

My gut instinct is that they will keep the weight almost identical to the current twins. That was always a goal for this car from the beginning while being cost efficient. I’m sure they have looked at the ND Miata and all the steps Mazda took to keep weight down. None of it is that expensive if Mazda can affordably price the ND. I mean Toyota has been leading with composites and carbon composites, I would be shocked if some of that didn’t make its way into the twins. Or at the very least on higher spec models.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by JesseG

Sure if you add power that usually increases weight, unless you are looking at cars in the exotic territory. I think, and just my opinion, that Toyota/Subie will use some weight savings tricks that won’t cost a lot. And maybe that will only offset any performance upgrades, so we end up with a net zero weight difference. Also, if this ends up on Subaru’s global platform (don’t yell at me Tcoat ) there are weight savings in that chassis, and a stiffer structure.

Look, I’m being realistic about how much can be expected of the 2nd gen twins. And I really don’t want any radical changes. More torque would be SO nice, continue with the more compliant ride of the later model 1st gen cars, and maybe upgrade the interior a little. I will be very happy. Oh, and improve the 2nd gear synchro!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Miata is not a reasonable comparison and Toyota could learn nothing from them. It took almost 30 years for the Miata to get a significant power bump and in that period new tech and design was able to keep the weight relatively stable. There is nothing special about the Miata weight for what it is.
The Twins on the other hand were built using much newer designs only 7 years ago. Short of pumping expensive materials into them there is very little that can be done to save weight while keeping costs in line. Any significant increase in power, "upgraded" interior materials, or other "improvements" will add weight. There is no getting around it without raising costs and then the price. That would not go over well at all. As it stands no matter what they do people will scream it isn't enough since it still isn't a supercar at a econobox price point.

I have said for years that the new Global platform was probable. I just want them to actually deny or confirm that so I can either eat my hat or gloat whichever is appropriate.