New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by mav1178

politics aside, I'm actually looking forward to this.

specifically, I'm looking forward to enough hydrogen refueling stations + lower cost of hydrogen due to economies of scale to have it become the next viable electric car.

people keep thinking electric cars involve recharging from the grid... hydrogen powered fuel cells are electric cars, but can refuel just as quick as gasoline cars. that will be the big thing.. a car running on a renewable resource.

I hope there will be large scale hydrogen production from plants powered by solar farms, it's something that needs consumer demand to make happen.

The 2nd generation Mirai is pretty much on my short list of cars to buy in the near future, along with perhaps the Volvo V60 Cross Country should there be a T8 or Polestar variant.

The big thing with hydrogen is that we burn natural gas to make it, so it isn’t green. Hydrolysis would be nice, but it isn’t there yet and has some issues. Plus, for hydrogen, it is inherently wasteful because it is an intermediary. If we had excess nuclear or something then we could use the excess energy for hydrogen, but without that, it would be better to eliminate the intermediate step and waste and just use electricity. And there can be a lot of waste in transporting hydrogen, in building hydrogen fuel stations, in building hydrogen production facilities, and in the end, EVs just seem simpler. I’m sure hydrogen will be there, but it just doesn’t seem like hydrogen is the fast solution. It is more of a long term solution to fill all gaps that EVs couldn’t fill or couldn’t fill well.

Recharging is already capable of adding enough range, and it will only get faster. Tesla’s version 3 superchargers can add 75 miles in 5 minutes. Lucid says they can add 300 miles in 20 minutes on their new car. Where will it be in fifteen years? If we have self-driving cars then what is another 20 minutes at an automated charging station on that cross country road trip when you are watching your movie or playing your VR game or sleeping in your car during the process?

Try comparing the Mirai to a Model 3. I don’t see a compelling reason to be excited about the Mirai, but I like your enthusiasm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidee...ota-mirai/amp/

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Don't get me wrong I believe in climate change, but there is jack shit we can stop it. What I am for is zero/less pollution. The idea of banning big diesel haulers, that would quickly back fire when shipping cost triple to CA. .

There has always been climate change, just ask the Mammoths. That doesn't mean we humans aren't contributing this time, but it is part of the natural cycle of the planet.

As far as haulers, that's where hydrogen comes in. Same for aircraft. In fact, Airbus is committed to bringing out three hydrogen fueled aircraft which makes infinitely more sense then a battery powered one (do you want to wait for a 747 sized plane to have it's batteries recharged?)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't give a crap one way or the other what powers my car (electric, hydrogen, nano-diamond atomic batteries, unicorn tears) as long as I can get in it, and drive it anywhere I want the way I can my ICE fleet.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

We could do a program like cash for clunkers, but the fact is that the average age of cars on the road is 12 years, which is 2008 +/- and that means that the vast majority of the cars on the road are OBD2, and this means that they likely pass or don’t pass. Average fuel economy of new vehicles has improved since then, but buying habits might not reflect better fuel economy. EVs take the rating and greatly improve it, so I think they are better off with a state mandate, especially since Trump rolled back Obama’s fuel economy mandates. It will result in the biggest change the fastest.

An EV can be potentially cheaper to own when all expenses are included and metrics are equal, and when $25k EVs hit the market, the case for the EV for most drivers will be obvious. Don’t forget about the used car market for EVs. Used EVs will be cheaper and a compelling option. They offer reliability even at high mileage, and with over-the-air updates, they could be a good option.

When do you think somebody will actually make a $25k ev? What percentage of the population do you think can afford a $25k ev? And how long will a $25k ev take to depreciate to the point where everyone that needs a car can afford one?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

There has always been climate change, just ask the Mammoths. That doesn't mean we humans aren't contributing this time, but it is part of the natural cycle of the planet.

As far as haulers, that's where hydrogen comes in. Same for aircraft. In fact, Airbus is committed to bringing out three hydrogen fueled aircraft which makes infinitely more sense then a battery powered one (do you want to wait for a 747 sized plane to have it's batteries recharged?)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't give a crap one way or the other what powers my car (electric, hydrogen, nano-diamond atomic batteries, unicorn tears) as long as I can get in it, and drive it anywhere I want the way I can my ICE fleet.

I just don't want to have to haul a small moon around whenever I go somewhere. Batteries are way too heavy for the range you get. When you start talking about 3200lb miatas you know there is a problem.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I just don't want to have to haul a small moon around whenever I go somewhere. Batteries are way too heavy for the range you get. When you start talking about 3200lb miatas you know there is a problem.

That's one of the reasons why I was one team Hydrogen. That plus I like an underdog particularly when its a better tech. I owned laserdiscs and betamax recorders too.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

There has always been climate change, just ask the Mammoths. That doesn't mean we humans aren't contributing this time, but it is part of the natural cycle of the planet.

What is happening now is new and has not been part of the "natural" cycles of the planet. Humans are making significant impactful changes (CO2, methane, deforestation, etc.) over an *extremely* short time period, the effects will come (indeed are beginning to come) fast and furious. Even if we stopped all human activity now, we have already locked in BIG changes. It's in our best interests to limit our inputs into the system, and we haven't been taking this seriously enough.

Temperature is only one measure of "change", but fwiw it took ~10,000 years, from 20,000 BCE to 9,000 BCE for temps to rise a bit more than 4C to modern "normal" temps. We're now looking at that kind of temperature rise over a 100-200 year time frame.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ZDan

What is happening now is new and has not been part of the "natural" cycles of the planet.

We're saying the same thing, I'm just choosing not to be argumentative about it.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

We're saying the same thing, I'm just choosing not to be argumentative about it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative! Just pointing out that natural cycles are *sllooooooow*, while human input over the past century plus have been FAST.

[Lantanafrs2]

Gender reveal parties have done more damage than internal combustion

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Gender reveal parties have done more damage than internal combustion

But without climate change the wildfires wouldnt have flared up as bad as it did right....?





My EV of choice is the VW ID.Buzz (the EV hippy van revival), whenever they get around to building it.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by solidsnake11

Just wondering what they use to make the electricity to charge electric cars with. California can't even power themselves now.

The battery level in that screen shot is actual representation of the state of CA

[dpfarr]

What are you even talking about? Even in a week of prolonged 105° with high night temperatures there were not rolling blackouts.

The economy of energy production matters. A power plant using ff to generate electricity isn’t equivalent to the x number of vehicles making the same power.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

What are you even talking about? Even in a week of prolonged 105° with high night temperatures there were not rolling blackouts.

The economy of energy production matters. A power plant using ff to generate electricity isn’t equivalent to the x number of vehicles making the same power.

It is a joke, relax. CA used to be known for brown outs, things seem better now then they used to be.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The big thing with hydrogen is that we burn natural gas to make it, so it isn’t green. Hydrolysis would be nice, but it isn’t there yet and has some issues. Plus, for hydrogen, it is inherently wasteful because it is an intermediary. If we had excess nuclear or something then we could use the excess energy for hydrogen, but without that, it would be better to eliminate the intermediate step and waste and just use electricity. And there can be a lot of waste in transporting hydrogen, in building hydrogen fuel stations, in building hydrogen production facilities, and in the end, EVs just seem simpler. I’m sure hydrogen will be there, but it just doesn’t seem like hydrogen is the fast solution. It is more of a long term solution to fill all gaps that EVs couldn’t fill or couldn’t fill well.

Recharging is already capable of adding enough range, and it will only get faster. Tesla’s version 3 superchargers can add 75 miles in 5 minutes. Lucid says they can add 300 miles in 20 minutes on their new car. Where will it be in fifteen years? If we have self-driving cars then what is another 20 minutes at an automated charging station on that cross country road trip when you are watching your movie or playing your VR game or sleeping in your car during the process?

Try comparing the Mirai to a Model 3. I don’t see a compelling reason to be excited about the Mirai, but I like your enthusiasm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidee...ota-mirai/amp/

I did a focus group on the Mirai back in February. Refueling takes about 5-10 minutes, and one tank is upwards of 500+ miles now. In that same group, I sat in a Mirai next to a Model 3, and several other pure EV/Fuel Cell cars, and that only got me more excited.

The big cost inhibitor is the carbon fiber tank used to house the hydrogen gas, currently it’s over $10k to manufacture.

My goal for the future is to have EV and fuel cell vehicles have hot swappable battery or fuel units, this way you can swap it out as you go and it greatly reduces any refuel/charge time.

As for the economies of fuel cell, I am hoping there would be standalone solar or wind farms that can produce hydrogen without being a drag on the regular power grid. Even trying to harness tidal power will be a huge thing offshore, and may be magnitudes safer than drilling for oil.