2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gymratter

ynguldyn has a track record. the one that most people on this forum are going to be aware of is the Z4/Supra. 2 years before its release ynguldyn posted engine choices, all the color options, and even provided us with pre-production VINs. more recently he told everyone in 2019 that the 2021 Supras will also get the 382hp B58D. again, common knowledge on SupraMKV, @Guff can confirm this. so ok, believe what you want to believe.

Meh. You make 1,000 predictions and edit them as you get new info then sure you get some right.
If BMW has that many "leaks" they really need to tighten things up.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. You make 1,000 predictions and edit them as you get new info then sure you get some right.
If BMW has that many "leaks" they really need to tighten things up.

good thing the mods copied and pasted everything onto our sister forum and surprised surprised everything was corrected. if you follow BMW/bimmerpost you would know leaks aren't anything new. it happens all the time. people talk, its human nature.

[vh_supra26]

I like how he taped over the Toyota badges.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by gymratter

leaks aren't anything new. it happens all the time. people talk, its human nature.

A lot of ‘leaks’ (including spyshots) are also intentional info drops and trial balloons, to generate buzz, to see how ideas are received, and so marketing can be adjusted based on likely market response, as gauged by public responses to the deliberate leaks.

[Lantanafrs2]

4 years is a long time. A lot of internal combustion niche products will probably be dead by then.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

4 years is a long time. A lot of internal combustion niche products will probably be dead by then.

Not really. The only thing alternative energy has succeeded at in the last 8 years is lackluster promises.

If you had said 5-10 years, It'd be more possible

[strat61caster]

A. Clickbait
B. Japanese milk their rwd sports cars for a decade, Zupra will be around until 2030.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

A. Clickbait

Can't be! It was confirmed by a rumour, based on a leak from an unidentified source and written in another forum. Has to be true since you just don't get more official than that.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

A. Clickbait
B. Japanese milk their rwd sports cars for a decade, Zupra will be around until 2030.

but its technically German

looking at the life cycle of past Zs 2025 isn't that outlandish.

E36 Z3: 1995–2002 = 7 yrs
E85 Z4: 2002–2008 - 6 yrs
E89 Z4: 2009–2016 = 7 yrs

J29/G29 Zupra : 2019-2025 = 6 yrs

Originally Posted by Red-86

A lot of ‘leaks’ (including spyshots) are also intentional info drops and trial balloons, to generate buzz, to see how ideas are received, and so marketing can be adjusted based on likely market response, as gauged by public responses to the deliberate leaks.

yup, just like how the new 2 series has been leaked.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1736083

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Legitimacy of leaks or not, those taillights want to make me watch Voltron again for some reason. Which usually lasts until about 5 minutes into the first episode of Voltron.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

A. Clickbait
B. Japanese milk their rwd sports cars for a decade, Zupra will be around until 2030.

BMW LCI (lifecycle impulse) is every 3-4yrs. That’s when they do their refresh on the existing model, similar to the 2017 update on the 86/BRZ. As stated above, 7yrs is about the norm for their vehicles before stopping production or changing to a new model/chassis.

Since the car is built in line with BMW in a plant in Austria, I would expect both companies to stick to something similar to this.

[gymratter]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ra-comparison/

For 2021, Toyota gave the six-cylinder Supra more power and introduced a four-cylinder option. Which should be in your garage?

The Supra only arrived last year, but Toyota is already tweaking the formula. Originally, the two-seat sports car, which shares its platform and drivetrain with the BMW Z4, offered a single engine: a 3.0-liter turbo straight-six with 335 horsepower and 365 lb-ft of torque. For 2021, the lineup expands. The six-cylinder engine now makes 382 hp and 368 lb-ft, mostly thanks to exhaust manifold improvements, and the car earns a new front strut-tower brace for added stiffness.

This story originally appeared in the July, 2020 issue of Road & Track.

The big news comes in a small- displacement package. This year, Toyota brings the 2.0-liter turbocharged four- cylinder Supra to the United States. Available in Europe since the model’s debut, the small-engine Supra kicks out 255 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. It offers a cheaper entry point and a curb weight that’s roughly 220 lbs lighter than the straight-six model, but the eight-speed automatic remains the only transmission available with either engine. Road & Track’s staff is mostly based in New York City, which means we’ve all been suffering from some intense cabin fever. So when two 2021 Supras showed up for a few days of testing, it seemed like the perfect opportunity for some car bickering. Editor-in-chief Travis Okulski took the six-cylinder, deputy editor Bob Sorokanich took the four, and they met up at a scenic spot in the hills an hour north of the city. There, standing a safe distance apart, wearing face masks, and feeling more than a little foolish about it all, the guys pondered the two flavors of Supra on offer.

Bob: I’ve been driving the four-cylinder for a few days. From the first few moments behind the wheel, I knew I liked it better than the six. This is going to sound like car-enthusiast contrarianism, but it’s a little softer, a little less frantic, especially in the front end. That slightly dialed-back feeling fixed one of my biggest gripes with the six-cylinder car.

Travis: The four is a conundrum. It’s lighter. I think it handles better. But the engine isn’t special, just another 2.0-liter turbo. It sounds like nothing. The smaller wheels make it look ordinary. And when you buy a sports car, do you want to have the one that just looks plain and isn’t actually fast?

Bob: When I got in the six, it almost felt too fast. That’s weird, because it’s quick but by no means a supercar. It just never starts to feel alive. You go faster and faster, and you almost don’t notice it, because the car never starts to dance with you. It gives you the speed, but it doesn’t warm up, doesn’t feel like it’s enjoying itself. It’s not a comforting feeling.

Travis: I get that. But at least the six- cylinder car has some character, like it or not. That BMW engine is a monster. The four is anonymous in every application, and the gear ratios just don’t make sense. There’s a huge gap between second and third that makes it less fun on a back road.

Bob:They tried to dress the four up with sports-car stuff. You put the thing into Sport mode and it does these little teensy- weensy backfires when you get off the throttle. Like it’s too embarrassed to actually go WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP the way the six does. If you’re gonna make it backfire, go all the way! I’m mad about this.

Travis: And this is the one you think is better.

Bob: I mean, I also hate the backfiring on the six. It sounds like a storm door slamming around in the wind. Here’s the thing: the six-cylinder has this hyper-aggressive steering response. Even after a day or two driving the car, it would catch me off guard. You turn the wheel and the car goes BAM into the corner, and like two seconds later, inertia catches up and pushes you into the bolster. It’s completely out of step with the rest of the car. The four-cylinder fixes that. Lighter curb weight, slightly softer springs, a little more sidewall. It makes the car feel more playful, more cohesive.

Travis: The first time I drove the six- cylinder, last year, it was on pristine roads and at Lime Rock Park, a smooth track. I dug it. But I’ve driven it since, and the chassis and suspension just don’t react well to rough roads. This newest version, with more horsepower, still feels disjointed on a tight, bumpy backroad. There’s no steering feel and the rear end provides no confidence over bumps. It bounces all over the place. But the engine is burly, robust. Not anemic. And the four, for whatever reason, feels like it’d be the Supra for poseurs, even if it’s the better one to drive.

Bob: Man, that’s the other thing. Toyota gave the six-cylinder 47 more horsepower and I swear I can’t feel it. Last year’s car was plenty quick. We measured 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. The new one does not feel any quicker to me. Do you feel a difference?

Travis: Not even a little bit.

Bob: I think I know why. They gave it 47 more horsepower. Guess how much the torque increased.

Travis: Is it none? None more torque?

Bob: Pretty much. Three lb-ft. You’re probably exerting more torque by turning the steering wheel. And the steering in the 3.0 is too twitchy. Nearly 50 more horsepower didn’t make the car any more engaging. The 2.0 feels more natural, but the engine is dull. This is heresy, but I don’t think a stick shift could solve this car’s problems.

Travis: It’s also all about perception. The Supra and Z4 are meant to serve different people. BMW wants the Z4 to be used for grand touring, Toyota thinks the Supra is for sports-car fans who want to hit the track. In reality, this Supra, like its predecessors, is an excellent GT car. It eats up miles all day and is super comfortable. But when you use it on a track, or on a fast, uneven back road, the flaws start to appear. And you can’t ignore them.

Bob: I dunno if anything with a wheelbase this short can be an “excellent” grand touring car, but I get your drift. So, six-cylinder or four?

Travis: Has to be the six. You?

Bob: I’m going four.

Travis: Do you like how it looks?

Bob: I … hmm. I love the fact that it looks like a sports car. And driving up here behind you, I really started to love the look of the rear end. It has all of the classic stuff you want in a sports car—the big fenders, the low roof. I do not love the front of the thing, though.

Travis: I kind of hated everything about it when I first saw it last year. The rear is busy—so many lines, fake vents galore. The nose looks like a Formula 1 wannabe. But the more time I spend around it, the more it makes sense. Now I dig it. It’s low, aggressive. Looks angry. And it’s striking in profile.

Bob: They did an excellent job of evoking the last Supra without c opying everything about it. Especially the greenhouse. I think people heard the word “Supra” and expected it to have four-circle taillights and a big shopping-cart-handle rear wing. People love that stuff, and they got testy when the new car didn’t have it. I’ll say this: I like the way it looks a hell of a lot more than the Z4.

Travis: Calling it a Supra has two sides. On the one hand, there are expectations and a reputation to live up to, and in a lot of ways it just can’t. On the other hand, this car resonates with fans who aren’t behind the wheel. I had kids in ratty old BMWs shouting about how cool the car was and giving emphatic thumbs-up. People stared everywhere I went. It attracts immediate attention. If that’s what Toyota wanted, then it’s an unmitigated win.

Bob: I’ll tell you something. Before this Supra showed up at my house, I spent a day driving a Rolls Royce Cullinan. It was painted Grimace purple, for Pete’s sake. More people noticed this Supra. It makes me wonder if we’re being unfair to this car. Pretty much nobody is investing in sports cars like this. You can count the two-door cars that compete in the Supra’s price range on one hand. That means something.

Travis: But now it’s literally the same car as a BMW, one that’s better suited to the mission. The Z4 makes more sense.

Bob: More sense in terms of styling? Or as an overall package?

Travis: As a package. The Z4 is a sporty grand tourer in the spirit of the last Supra. Fun on a back road, fine on a track. And you can put the windows down without feeling like your head is going to explode.

Bob: Oh man. Did you feel like you were inside a helicopter when you put your windows down? I thought something was wrong with my car, like a piece of wind deflector fell off. You cannot drive this car with both windows open even a little bit. The buffeting is unbearable.

Travis: Exactly. A sports car you can’t drive with the windows down is a sad prospect. It’s also a cave in there. The low roof and high sills make you feel trapped inside.

Bob: I worry what this says about the people who made the Supra and how they approached this car. People drive their sports cars with the windows down! That’s a pretty standard use case for a car like this. Did they not understand that? Did they just not care? It feels like a pretty glaring oversight. And I think that attitude appears in other places, too.

Travis: Companies just aren’t spending the money or time they did in the past to develop new sports cars. The fact that BMW and Toyota took the time to team up and build a new sports car, something they know won’t be a volume seller, takes guts and faith in enthusiasts. I respect that. And I want to love this car, I really do. But it’s hard to connect with.

Bob: Right! Also, talk about companies with a long history of making great sports cars. Front engine! Rear drive! Straight-six! This is the stuff these brands built their names on. Are we being too nit-picky?

Travis: I don’t think so. It’s not nit-picky to expect two of the world’s best carmakers to build an amazing sports car.

[vh_supra26]

[Rampage]