FR-S vs 2012 Ford Focus ST

[muffinman]

estimated 250 lb ft of torque at 1750rpm? their "torque vectoring" or whatever theyre calling it better be damn good. either the system will help put the power down or it wont allow ful torque in lower gears. i think dodge limited the torque in srt4 calibers in 1st and 2nd gear after they didnt do that in srt4 neons. i think mazda did the same in the 2nd gen mazdaspeed 3's after they didnt do that in the earlier models

[SioXie101]

WHEW,i missed this thread. Great input and conversation guys. :happy0180:

Ford just aired the Focus ST ad taken in miami. For starters i never been a fan of FORD USA mainly because they think Americans like SUV and trucks and muscle cars and always wonder why the Ford Europe has the best handling, well-engineered and better quality Ford products than their American counterparts. But once they started to have a global platform for thier cars i took notice and finally we Americans have a taste of what Ford was offering elsewhere.

The Focus ST is in the same line as the FRS/BRZ price wise. So its not uncommon for buyers like me to put the 2 in direct comparison. It all boils down to what i really need.

[jpdarty7]

I ordered a BRZ back in March and still have no ETA and now that I've had some time to contemplate my order I'm starting to think I need a little bigger car for my daily use. The Focus ST I know is a completely different car but I think it's a solid alternative for me or anyone else who thinks the BRZ is a bit small. I'm extremely torn. Any thoughts?

[Spaceywilly]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2551

[caliboy15]

Geremy Clarkson approves Focus ST. Get one

[BioRage]

Plan on reselling it at a later date? Defeintely get a higher residual value for a JDM than a US car..

4DR>2DR is more practical.

But I'm sick of 4DR cars, so I just placed an order for a 2DR car

[dsgerbc]

A buddy of mine has ordered the ST. I'll compare them once he gets it

[Extreme86]

Originally Posted by jpdarty7

I ordered a BRZ back in March and still have no ETA and now that I've had some time to contemplate my order I'm starting to think I need a little bigger car for my daily use. The Focus ST I know is a completely different car but I think it's a solid alternative for me or anyone else who thinks the BRZ is a bit small. I'm extremely torn. Any thoughts?

I am in the same boat but, decided to hold out for the BRZ. Focus ST likely more practical, more power/torque, a little heavier. Not as sexy styling as the Toybarus IMHO. Fun factor? FWD vs RWD. You will have to decide. With leather and nav the MSRP is gonna be up there in price.

Problem I have is that a loaded ST adds over $10K to the base price of a Focus. You will eventually take a huge hit in depreciation with a Focus ST. But, if you like it, that is what is important. There are other alternatives out there if you are going to go to a 4 door FWD. Nothing really interested me enough to change my mind.

[shadoquad]

Can't wait to take a look at the Focus ST myself. Gave my number to a few dealers.

I'm expecting it to be on par with a MS3 in terms of performance and practicality.

As it compares with the twins, I'd assume that it's the more practical, less fun option. More space, less handling. Focus may even pull it in a straight line, but it'll likely get buried on any circuit.

Should be a fun comparison to make, though, once they officially hit showrooms.

[rice_classic]

Big round of applause to Ford. Better cars and better looking cars. The focus, the fiesta, the new fusion and of course the mustang (I don't like the mustang). I see a lot of Fiestas and Foci on the road and all I can say is good for them. I feels good to have a good ol' American car company make cool cars again, even if some of them aren't built here (that's beside the point).


edit: Those seats in that link above make me want to club a baby seal however. Do not want those seats.

[Spaceywilly]

Got to drive an ST today at the Focus ST academy event at Gillette Stadium. It is a really great, fun car. The driving event itself was really awesome, they had MT cars and a nice technical course that really let you push the car. Compared to the BRZ, you really couldn't feel the extra power on this course. It was just 2nd gear the whole way, and I don't think I really got over 40 or so, so I couldn't explore the powerband much. It may be different at higher speeds, but it definitely didn't feel like a rocketship compared to the BRZ, as people would think it would if they just looked at power numbers. Fact is, the BRZ feels fast, even if it isn't on paper.

Handling wise, the Focus ST was great. It is still very much a FWD car at the limit, but it does a much better job of hiding it than any other FWD car I've driven. You can really throw it into turns and as long as you slow it down enough, it will turn in. If you go too fast though, or turn too much, it's still understeer city like any other FWD car. Drive it using proper FWD technique though, and it really is great. The tires have tons of grip, it has great turn in, and once you get the wheel straight it accelerates quickly. The brakes were even better than the BRZ's (I suspect they might not be stock pads).

The biggest difference between the BRZ and Focus was the feel. Focus just didn't have the feel that the BRZ does. The shifter was floppy with long throws, the steering wheel didn't have great feedback, and overall it just wasn't as communicative as the BRZ. It's hard to really put this in words, but I think the BRZ has a very keen single focus on the driver that the Focus lacks. The seating position, the steering wheel, the low CoG, the LSD and RWD, all add up to make the BRZ a better driver's car. For people that don't want RWD because of the snow, or need a wagon for their family, or for whatever reason don't find the BRZ practical enough, I think the Focus is probably the best choice out there right now. It really ups the ante in the hot hatch market, and I hope Subaru and VW respond with a better WRX and GTI, but for me, the BRZ is still where it's at.

Some other notes: the seats are awesome, great exhaust note, I think I could've gone faster around their course in my BRZ if I had the same tires. Definitely could've carried more speed into the turns and gotten on the gas sooner (you really have to wait a long time to get on the gas in a FWD car).

[Tt3Sheppard]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Got to drive an ST today at the Focus ST academy event at Gillette Stadium. It is a really great, fun car. The driving event itself was really awesome, they had MT cars and a nice technical course that really let you push the car. Compared to the BRZ, you really couldn't feel the extra power on this course. It was just 2nd gear the whole way, and I don't think I really got over 40 or so, so I couldn't explore the powerband much. It may be different at higher speeds, but it definitely didn't feel like a rocketship compared to the BRZ, as people would think it would if they just looked at power numbers. Fact is, the BRZ feels fast, even if it isn't on paper.

Handling wise, the Focus ST was great. It is still very much a FWD car at the limit, but it does a much better job of hiding it than any other FWD car I've driven. You can really throw it into turns and as long as you slow it down enough, it will turn in. If you go too fast though, or turn too much, it's still understeer city like any other FWD car. Drive it using proper FWD technique though, and it really is great. The tires have tons of grip, it has great turn in, and once you get the wheel straight it accelerates quickly. The brakes were even better than the BRZ's (I suspect they might not be stock pads).

The biggest difference between the BRZ and Focus was the feel. Focus just didn't have the feel that the BRZ does. The shifter was floppy with long throws, the steering wheel didn't have great feedback, and overall it just wasn't as communicative as the BRZ. It's hard to really put this in words, but I think the BRZ has a very keen single focus on the driver that the Focus lacks. The seating position, the steering wheel, the low CoG, the LSD and RWD, all add up to make the BRZ a better driver's car. For people that don't want RWD because of the snow, or need a wagon for their family, or for whatever reason don't find the BRZ practical enough, I think the Focus is probably the best choice out there right now. It really ups the ante in the hot hatch market, and I hope Subaru and VW respond with a better WRX and GTI, but for me, the BRZ is still where it's at.

Some other notes: the seats are awesome, great exhaust note, I think I could've gone faster around their course in my BRZ if I had the same tires. Definitely could've carried more speed into the turns and gotten on the gas sooner (you really have to wait a long time to get on the gas in a FWD car).

I was at that event as well. Was that your white out brz in the lot? I agree for a fwd car it doesn't have much under steer. Fun course though ran a 30.2 on my first lap..second lap I slammed right into 3 cones on the final turn. Couldn't go again because I had to pick up my corolla rental while my frs is getting fixed

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

As far as racing is concerned, I think RWD vs FWD is a pretty moot argument at this level. I don't know how many people here take their cars to the track, but their are a lot of FWD cars out there that are set up properly and can eat most of the RWD cars out their that are on the same level.

Sure professional racing is a different story, but I am strictly talking about hobbyists. We have a guy at my local track (NJMP) who runs an EK Civic coupe, I think he has about 230whp and the guys in the M3's, S2000s, etc... cant keep up with him. Obviously it has a lot to do with driver skill, but all I am saying is that at this level (GC, BRZ, GTI, Focus ST, etc) its really anyone's game out there.

Also, just to throw it out there, there is supposed to be a Fiesta ST released a year after the Focus ST, also in the 200+ horsepower range. Food for thought.

Also just another thought (haha)... With the mass incentives that Ford offers, the Focus ST will probably be the best bang for your buck sports car, along with the V6 Mustang.

Im looking foward to the Fiesta ST if its a 2 door,and as long as you can get a GT at 27k then its still the best bang for your buck in this lifetime for a new car....

[Grishbok]

I am late to the party...

Ford's "Torque Vectoring" is merely the computer taking over control of the limited slip differential in order to transfer torque equally across both axels.

This has been done in racing for decades using a left foot brake technique, while applying very light brake pressure exiting the turn, you manipulate the lsd into splitting the torque evenly to both wheels, enabling you to be on the power sooner, and not overpower your outter wheel.