(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yeah the translation is totally crap.

Hilarious though!

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Breaking news!


The second gen will be powered by a vegetable.

So Flex Fuel/Ethanol from factory? That would actually be pretty cool lol.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

So Flex Fuel/Ethanol from factory? That would actually be pretty cool lol.

Well radishes do give me gas so...

[ichitaka05]

Watched bout 45mins of that vid... that was a waste of my time. Nothing to translate

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Watched bout 45mins of that vid... that was a waste of my time. Nothing to translate

But...
But...
But...
What about the radish power?

[nextcar]

The 2nd generation BRZ will be renamed the Crosstrek!

I saw a picture on the internet so it must be true:

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There are thousands of paper and electronic magazines for specific manufacturers products that have no affiliation with the actual manufacturer. Hell even this forum uses the make and model names in their set up and god knows we are not even close to official!
Using the brand names isn't a big deal I am sure as long as they do not attempt to represent themselves as a company affiliated publication.

https://members.subaru.jp/subaru_girls/vol_1/

It looks like there is some sort of affiliation, if you look at the bottom of the web page (link above) on their member’s forum there is a link to this Subaru Magazine. This link was off Subaru Japan’s website.

[Opie]

LOL

[squall leonhart]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I'm biased, but this chart would lead me to believe that Toyota's design & engineering heavily impacted the twins to the point that it truly is more of a Toyota than a Subaru, despite the engine, and despite the name stamped all over the chassis.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by squall leonhart

I'm biased, but this chart would lead me to believe that Toyota's design & engineering heavily impacted the twins to the point that it truly is equally Toyota and Subaru, despite the engine, and despite the name stamped all over the chassis.

Fixed, it really was a 50-50 effort:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5274

The engine is Subaru's basic new engine architecture, but it was a clean sheet design for the 86 that Toyota actively participated in the development of, bringing Toyota tech into it (eg. the head design and injection system). The newer Subaru engines are based on the 86 motor, not the other way around.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Red-86

All but certain not to happen. If the 2nd gen 86 proceeds, almost guaranteed be a Subi boxer 4.



Again, if it proceeds, almost guaranteed to be another Subi collaboration.



Funnily enough, I’m also considering a 2020 MX-5 RF to replace my 2015 86. I want something newer, still small, fun, and RWD, but with a nicer interior and a smoother, better sounding engine. The RF might just fit the bill. Don’t fancy waiting around another year or more on the off chance Toyota release a heavier, uglier next gen twin with just 12 more HP as per the most likely rumours.

I owned a ND Miata, and would not go back to a MX5 from the 86 (just bought my 2nd, a Hakone: nicer interior box checked). I don't think there is much difference in engine sound (w equal length header). My NC was low miles, and I had to chase down a dropped cylinder to a shorting injector wire (IIRC, ~ the same gauge as 6 human hairs). Mazda is at # 12 on our 2018 chart above, falling 6 points in 2 years. Oh, and the MX5 doesn't have the luggage capacity to take a female passenger on a overnight trip. I have tracked both cars, and find the the 86 a far better track toy...no puking coolant after a session, handling, CG, etc. Other than all that, the Miata is good car, especially if your looking for a disposable $5-6K track toy, but in that case, I'd build the motor in a cheap, high mileage/lunched/or lightly damaged 86 for that purpose. But hey, if you're curious

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by squall leonhart

I'm biased, but this chart would lead me to believe that Toyota's design & engineering heavily impacted the twins to the point that it truly is more of a Toyota than a Subaru, despite the engine, and despite the name stamped all over the chassis.

I think it has more to do with it being a newer model with a different usage than some of the others. If you review the criteria used by Consumer Reports, they include vehicles that are as much as 10 years old in the survey.

Also, the survey is likely to have very few respondents that own a twin, just because of the volume built. Would someone that has heavily modded their car call it "unreliable" or even respond to the survey?

Frankly I think the whole ranking is suspect. Look at the GM spread. Buick is ranked 8, Cadillac is at the bottom and the others are scattered between. Yet, in most cases, it's basically the same vehicle base.

Even the "average scores" column doesn't make sense to me. Is Toyota more reliable than Cadillac? Maybe. Is there that much difference (80 vs 26), sorry don't believe it.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Buick is ranked 8

That's cause Buicks (late Saturns before that) are Opels, designed in Europe mainly for Europe. Then GM swaps the badges.

Cadillac is at the bottom

Not surprised. Cadillacs are American engineered/designed and most American engineered/designed GM products fail to stick the landing in one or more important areas. Cadillac in particular tries to compete with the Germans. In true GM fashion, their argument is 'We're faster and cheaper'. But as a real life daily driver luxury sports sedan, an ATS or CTS still doesn't hold a candle to a 3/5 series or an equivalent Audi, let alone a Mercedes. Even Lexus, whose cars are pretty much up to par with the germans on every level, and cheaper, can't really break through. I know this doesn't directly impact reliability, but reliability ratings are often skewed by perceived quality. And perceived quality is the germans' bread and butter.

Yet, in most cases, it's basically the same vehicle base.

yea but an Escalade is way more complicated that a Tahoe, so more problems?


A lot of American brands' reliability rating is lowered due to the piss-poor integration of the infotainment system in the car. Cue sucks, Mylink sucks, Sync mostly sucks, Uconnect sucks. They're universally awful. BMW spent over 1000 hours designing the sound of the door chime alone (probably longer than Ford spent total on the whole system in the last fusion I drove). They spend hundreds of man years per model to make sure the infotainment flows seamlessly with the rest of the car. With GM the cars are just not as well thought through.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

A lot of American brand's reliability rating is lowered due to the piss-poor integration of the infotainment system in the car. Cue sucks, Mylink sucks, Sync mostly sucks, connect sucks. em in the last fusion I drove).

I hear what you are saying but none of that is "reliability" in my book. That's usability. The two are not the same.

To me, for a vehicle to be reliable, it needs to get you from point A to point B when you want to get there.

If you are going to include "usability" then you also need to use "affordability". As in, when the car breaks, how much does it cost to fix?

In the end of course, our discussion, like this survey's results, is just opinion. There are no facts behind it, only "feels" of the people surveyed. So, to some extent, people think Toyota's are more reliable because they've been told they were more reliable, but they don't "know" its more reliable than any other car. For that you would have to look at data from repair shops, which you will never get.

I can only speak from my own experience, but I've owned (in relative order of when the first was purchased) multiple vehicles from Dodge, Ford, Audi, Honda, Chevrolet, Saturn, Toyota, Volvo and some of their other sub-brands. I can honestly say I didn't find any of them that more reliable than others. Most were pretty much problem free until around 100,000 miles, and had a few repairs between 100,000 and 200,00 miles. Over 200,000 miles it's just a wait to see what breaks that makes the car no longer worth fixing.

I can't say much about infotainment integration because the most integrated factory car I've owned is the Scion. Everything else has/had third party radios in it. I suppose I'll have to hold that judgement until the next car.

As far as "affordability", GM and Ford are much cheaper to fix, followed by Japanese, then European.