(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I am not sure if they can make a next generation anymore. This year the BRZ pricing was increased by 15% in Europe. Reason was that EU is targeting on average a 95 grams of CO2 per kilometer, an objective that Subaru couldn't meet. So, they had to pay a fine of 95 euros for every extra gram of CO2 and the biggest part of this was transferred to the consumers.

I am sure that Subaru will have similar problems in other regions with the continuously stricter emission rules. If not now, for sure in the near future.

Article here: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...zmhX5sXhg2hfyE

So doesn't the EU still have a large take of manual transmissions? All Subaru needs to do is offer CVTs to improve average fuel economy. It is possible that Europe would only see automatics of some type.

https://www.insidehook.com/article/v...-transmissions

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There are really three ways the first gen could go depending on what the second turns out to be.

Second rocks and is a far far better car = A glut of first gen on the market and plummiting prices.

Second is just meh and no reall improvement = First gen cars will continue to depreciate at the current curve.

Second is a total piece of crap and nobody that loved the first is remotely interested = First shoots up in value and each one that get's wrecked (that Opie and Dave don't fix up) forces the value up a bit more.


There is a fourth scenario I guess. They stop making any gen and the value of what exists is anybody's guess.

I do not see any plausible condition that would make the next gen a far better car and still get anything like the current resale value from the first.

Just gonna post this every two or three pages.

Originally Posted by fitcious

Is having only TRD parts on it considered ‘stock’? Haha

Btw, lets say next gen isn’t turbo- will our current gens hold value?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

So doesn't the EU still have a large take of manual transmissions? All Subaru needs to do is offer CVTs to improve average fuel economy. It is possible that Europe would only see automatics of some type.

https://www.insidehook.com/article/v...-transmissions

The problem is mainly the boxer design which is not the best option for fuel consumption and emission standards. Porsche on the other hand has the advantage of providing figures combined with the ones of VW's group. In general, not very easy days for Subaru if they don't move to a bigger integration with Toyota.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The problem is mainly the boxer design which is not the best option for fuel consumption and emission standards. Porsche on the other hand has the advantage of providing figures combined with the ones of VW's group. In general, not very easy days for Subaru if they don't move to a bigger integration with Toyota.

Unfortunately not may people know about or understand fleet carbon credits and has they are used.
Toyota would not want to spread their credits across the Subaru lineup even if they had a large enough share. They need to keep the car portion low so that they can continue to put large engines in their trucks. As you said earlier thos credits become even harder to maintain as we head into the middle of the decade.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Unfortunately not may people know about or understand fleet carbon credits and has they are used. .

@Tcoat, watch those cats of yours, they are starting to influence your speech...

What you say makes a lot of sense on the credits. Can't see Toyota wanting to "share" with a small partner.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Unfortunately not may people know about or understand fleet carbon credits and has they are used.
Toyota would not want to spread their credits across the Subaru lineup even if they had a large enough share. They need to keep the car portion low so that they can continue to put large engines in their trucks. As you said earlier thos credits become even harder to maintain as we head into the middle of the decade.

there's been tiny news-pieces about it in the past about how one of tesla's big incomes is selling their unused carbon credits to other companies.

but it never amounts to more than an article or two around the fiscal end-of-year reports. i assume largely because it's a behind the scenes things that most don't understand anyways.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The problem is mainly the boxer design which is not the best option for fuel consumption and emission standards. Porsche on the other hand has the advantage of providing figures combined with the ones of VW's group. In general, not very easy days for Subaru if they don't move to a bigger integration with Toyota.

What makes the boxer so bad? They are heavier than a straight four, but if that was such a problem then everyone with a V6 would be switching to straight sixes. It is probably more like Subaru wasn’t advancing fuel economy with hybrids and high compression engines. The EJ was a short stroke performance engine. They were late to the emissions game with the FB/FA with direct injection, high compression, and they were late to the game with valve timing.

Look at average mpgs when Subaru switched to CVTs. Subaru has more of a weight problem offering AWD as standard than an engine problem. That, and they only offer one car as a hybrid and more cars with a manual than most.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

there's been tiny news-pieces about it in the past about how one of tesla's big incomes is selling their unused carbon credits to other companies.

but it never amounts to more than an article or two around the fiscal end-of-year reports. i assume largely because it's a behind the scenes things that most don't understand anyways.

Well, it isn’t very sexy to be acting green then selling pollution credits to other companies to offset the continued existence of dirty cars or dirty factories. Tesla has made $1.7 billion since 2012 doing this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...r-2019-6%3famp

[Kiske]

Those images are a far-cry from the foul that was being called upon the insider information.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

@Tcoat, watch those cats of yours, they are starting to influence your speech...

What you say makes a lot of sense on the credits. Can't see Toyota wanting to "share" with a small partner.

iCan haZ spill chek?

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

iCan haZ spill chek?

Who ever invented spell check should burn in hello!

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Who ever invented spell check should burn in hello!

They're probably in financial haven.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

iCan haZ spill chek?

Spill check must be the secret sauce Takumi uses to avoid spilling his cup of water in his AE86 every time he traverses up the mountain road!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Spill check must be the secret sauce Takumi uses to avoid spilling his cup of water in his AE86 every time he traverses up the mountain road!

Ya "water".