2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by DM7

Includes mechanical LSD.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-t...hanges-421497/

Say goodbye to a limited-slip differential, and the under-hood strut-tower braces that are new in the 3.0 don’t show up here, though they seem like an easy add-on later if you decide.

I was pretty sure the SZ in Japan has an open differential. The NA MKIV had an open diff. Do you have something that says it has an LSD and not an open diff with EDL?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-t...hanges-421497/



I was pretty sure the SZ in Japan has an open differential. The NA MKIV had an open diff. Do you have something that says it has an LSD and not an open diff with EDL?

You sir are correct. It's open dif. No where in Media Press info states they have LSD. It's open dif.

[jflogerzi]

Pretty sure several reviews state we get a mechanical diff in the states.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[DM7]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-t...hanges-421497/



I was pretty sure the SZ in Japan has an open differential. The NA MKIV had an open diff. Do you have something that says it has an LSD and not an open diff with EDL?

"The GR Supra 2.0 offers 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque, identical to the BMW Z4 sDrive 30i that it shares nearly everything with. Compared to the six-cylinder Supra, the four has different spring and damper tuning, a mechanical (rather than electronic) limited-slip differential, smaller brakes, and downsized 18-inch wheels. The base-model Supra also forgoes the adaptive suspension that’s standard on the 3.0. Toyota claims the two-liter Supra weighs in at 3181 lbs, a weight savings of roughly 220 lbs. The loss of the eLSD shaved some weight off the rear, allowing the four-cylinder Supra to match the six-cylinder’s near-50-50 front-rear weight distribution. Both four- and six-cylinder Supras get an eight-speed automatic as their only gearbox choice.

And if you’re asking me which one I’d choose out of the two, I’d go for the four-cylinder." - BOB SOROKANICH May 13 2020, Road&Track

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...linder-review/

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

That's my point. For the base with very limited options & packages, not worth the price. You can get C-Class or even M240i with better package. If they gonna sell at that point, they need to have active suspension and e-dif. If not, they need drop the price.

The more I think about what you and Irace86 said about how well the 2.0 Supra will sell the more I think you guys would be right. As much as I like the 2.0 Supra; it will probably be even less popular than the Audi TT which I also like. $43000 for the "little brother" Supra looks bad on paper. I'm going to have to drive a 2.0 Supra before I form a complete opinion. Maybe it will drive like a $43000 car. My FR-S certainly drives better than its MSRP would lead people to believe.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DM7

T$43000 for the "little brother" Supra looks bad on paper. I'm going to have to drive a 2.0 Supra before I form a complete opinion. Maybe it will drive like a $43000 car. My FR-S certainly drives better than its MSRP would lead people to believe.

And that assumes the dealers will sell it at $43K if it is a $43K car. Seems unlikely.

By the time I'm at that point, I'm thinking like others have said before, some performance sedan. Adding to the ones already listed, both the CT4-V and CT5-V fall around that range. If you go used, you can get a V8 CTS-V for mid-40s.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by DM7

"The GR Supra 2.0 offers 255 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque, identical to the BMW Z4 sDrive 30i that it shares nearly everything with. Compared to the six-cylinder Supra, the four has different spring and damper tuning, a mechanical (rather than electronic) limited-slip differential, smaller brakes, and downsized 18-inch wheels. The base-model Supra also forgoes the adaptive suspension that’s standard on the 3.0. Toyota claims the two-liter Supra weighs in at 3181 lbs, a weight savings of roughly 220 lbs. The loss of the eLSD shaved some weight off the rear, allowing the four-cylinder Supra to match the six-cylinder’s near-50-50 front-rear weight distribution. Both four- and six-cylinder Supras get an eight-speed automatic as their only gearbox choice."

Thanks. Given the conflicting things I have read, and the fact that there is no mechanical LSD offered on the Japanese versions (open or active), I will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is an open diff with electronic differential lock aka individual wheel braking.

Pretty sure 2.0 BMWs like the 230i don't come with a mechanical LSD.

[DM7]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Thanks. Given the conflicting things I have read, and the fact that there is no mechanical LSD offered on the Japanese versions (open or active), I will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is an open diff with electronic differential lock aka individual wheel braking.

Pretty sure 2.0 BMWs like the 230i don't come with a mechanical LSD.

Interesting that we found articles with different information. I looked at Car and Driver's article and they were only able to confirm that the electronic LSD would not be on the 2.0. The only other source that I found that confirmed a mechanical LSD in the 2.0 is the Everyday Driver video review. I know how fond everyone is of that media outlet hahaha.

I own a 228i and it has an open differential. M240i are also open differential. Back in 2014 when the current 2 series was launched BMW and media outlets made a big deal about the available mechanical LSD. This mechanical LSD was a dealer installed option/accessory and is likely very rare. Despite how rare it probably is, some press loaner 228i and M235i were equipped with the dealer installed mechanical LSD. This made reviews of the cornering behaviour of the 2 series difficult to interpret. Some cars had LSDs and some didn't; some reviewers could feel the LSD working or they saw the spec sheet and some didn't.

[nikitopo]

They say it has an open diff. No wonder why they marketing it as a GT car and the 3.0 as the track focused car.

[gymratter]

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Recently Everyday Driver uploaded their review... I highly NOT watching it. They’re local guys, so want to help em out, but fuck... lost cause. They drank too much Toyota Kool-Aid and doesn’t do legit review. I do favor Toyota... but when there’s a problem, I say it to them. No BS & flat out... especially to engineers, including Tada-san. So they know & they can improve for the future model. ED? Nothing. Just pure BS

TLDR: Don’t watch review of Everyday Driver. Waste of your time

I recently watched the review and didn't notice anything terrible. Just curious, what problems are you referring to? The wind buffeting?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I recently watched the review and didn't notice anything terrible. Just curious, what problems are you referring to? The wind buffeting?

Whole vid. Did they say anything bad about the car? Or should I say constructive criticism. Especially Supra 2.0. Lets be real here, cuz Supra 2.0 isn’t perfect. Longer gear ratio for B48. Open dif, power curve is more toward SUC/CUV than sports car. crappy brakes (cuz it had SZ brakes). Rev hang. Few other things. Did they states those? Nope. Even other reviewer touched few of those. I even noticed it & told Tada-san these issue.

Car review shouldn’t be hiding shit around, especially clear & obvious shit. If there’s an problem or an issue, it should be stated, so potential buyer know what to expect. Instead of rambling about nothing for 25mins... correction. How Toyota shave 220 lbs by not putting B58, active suspension & e-dif, which is only half true.

I’m not saying I do better review... but I def know who’s drinking too much brand kool-aid & lost their word for the review.

[wbradley]

Supra 2.0 Is a trophy wife's car. Nothing wrong with that.

[DM7]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

...Open dif, power curve is more toward SUC/CUV than sports car. crappy brakes (cuz it had SZ brakes).

The engine and brake feel are two of the things I'm concerned about with regards to the partnership with BMW for both 2.0 and 3.0 Supra.

BMW engines (not talking about M engines) are really boring to drive. The wide torque band is great for 0-60 and allows you to use a high gear when cornering but they are not rewarding to rev out. Personally in a sports car I don't mind having a peaky power band because I want to use the top of the rev range anyways. I find the throttle response to be damped by the ECU for the sake of making the ride smoother. Worse yet the throttle response changes when the car thinks you are driving "aggressively". I would prefer the engine to behave in a consistent manner. Modern BMW turbo engines also don't sound good. Stock they are quiet and sound generic and with an exhaust they sound like a dump truck.

Like the engines, BMW brake feel is not tuned for sports cars. This includes the Brembo brakes they offer on everything. Pedal stroke is long and very light which makes it difficult when releasing the pedal during corner turn in. Otherwise the brakes work fine. Good initial bite, large rotors means more heat capacity and there are cooling ducts built into the bumper and wheel wells. I'm not bothered by the floating calipers offered on the 2.0 because it means I would not feel bad when replaced with a true track caliper kit. FR-S has much better brake feel. Toyota and Subaru really got the brake feel right which is impressive given the "economy car" brake hardware.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Supra 2.0 Is a trophy wife's car. Nothing wrong with that.

If you consider that way then yes... but Tada-san and other engineers made it as step-up car between 86 & 3.0 Supra. I'll be honest, ATM I rather skip that step and go directly to 3.0. Keyword is "ATM" if they can do something about it and give lil bit more love to 2.0 next year, my opinion will change... but for now, no thanks.

Originally Posted by DM7

The engine and brake feel are two of the things I'm concerned about with regards to the partnership with BMW for both 2.0 and 3.0 Supra.

BMW engines (not talking about M engines) are really boring to drive. The wide torque band is great for 0-60 and allows you to use a high gear when cornering but they are not rewarding to rev out. Personally in a sports car I don't mind having a peaky power band because I want to use the top of the rev range anyways. I find the throttle response to be damped by the ECU for the sake of making the ride smoother. Worse yet the throttle response changes when the car thinks you are driving "aggressively". I would prefer the engine to behave in a consistent manner. Modern BMW turbo engines also don't sound good. Stock they are quiet and sound generic and with an exhaust they sound like a dump truck.

Like the engines, BMW brake feel is not tuned for sports cars. This includes the Brembo brakes they offer on everything. Pedal stroke is long and very light which makes it difficult when releasing the pedal during corner turn in. Otherwise the brakes work fine. Good initial bite, large rotors means more heat capacity and there are cooling ducts built into the bumper and wheel wells. I'm not bothered by the floating calipers offered on the 2.0 because it means I would not feel bad when replaced with a true track caliper kit. FR-S has much better brake feel. Toyota and Subaru really got the brake feel right which is impressive given the "economy car" brake hardware.

Def get what you mean. I get why Tada-san made Supra 2.0... at the same time, don't get why they lego'ed it this badly. Idea was there... just an execution didn't go as they planned. So I hope next year, they'll give lil bit of love to Supra 2.0 too.