(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[JD001]

Originally Posted by soundman98

they have already been discontinued. japan has gotten the 'final edition' series to commemorate that. there might be new models on their way to america, but it means no more new models are being produced right now.

all that's been confirmed is that toyota has chosen to go in a different direction with the 2nd gen, and people that were involved(but are no longer) in the 1st gen design don't agree with the direction that they're going. but this was all pre-covid confirmations. right now, we don't even know if they're going to produce a 2nd gen..

i would say to look at the scion xb gen 1(2003–2006), and gen 2(2007–2015) for guidance. straight off the wikipedia page:
"The first-generation Scion xB was very similar to its original bB inspiration, but the second-generation xB was based on American buyers' "wants" relative to the first-generation, combined with the new styling of the 2005 bB. The sales of the Scion xB plummeted after the switch from the compact first-generation to the much larger second-generation xB2."

that doesn't mean it's going to be hot garbage, but it does mean it is going to be a departure from the passion-project that the 1st gen was.

If that's the case then going by what I've seen in this forum the series 2 will be:

Wide body - rocket bunny style
Lowered on air
JDM spec lights
Twin exhaust but only one pipe
Interior footwell lights
Red trim
More red trim
Some black Australian OEM stuff
Big touch pad ICE thingy
Faux suede on dash
Arm rest (must creak)
Big "fuck-off" rear view mirror
If MT then a big gear lever
If AT then a big gear lever
Camouflage gear and handbrake covers
Funny shaped crooked foot pedals
Wiring harness that can be easily spliced

I'm sure there's more but I'll take a rest now..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Veloist

I was waiting for the 2nd gen to replace my GTI lease next year...I'm still in love with everything about the 1st gens and can get a '20 tS right now at a discounted price...

From what it sounds like...from credible sources...the 2nd-gen may not have the same character as the first gens.

If only someone who knows for sure could steer me the right direction...

The people that know for sure won't/can't say but only hint. Just listen to the credible sources that can only hint at what they know and read between the lines.
Should they be wrong and it turns out actually get released and is spectacular then you gambled wrong. I played the odds and got a new one while I could.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JD001

If that's the case then going by what I've seen in this forum the series 2 will be:

Wide body - rocket bunny style
Lowered on air
JDM spec lights
Twin exhaust but only one pipe
Interior footwell lights
Red trim
More red trim
Some black Australian OEM stuff
Big touch pad ICE thingy
Faux suede on dash
Arm rest (must creak)
Big "fuck-off" rear view mirror
If MT then a big gear lever
If AT then a big gear lever
Camouflage gear and handbrake covers
Funny shaped crooked foot pedals
Wiring harness that can be easily spliced

I'm sure there's more but I'll take a rest now..

400HP
45 MPG
1,200 pounds
Big back seat people can use OR no back seat at all.
Hatchback
11" X 19" tires
$22,000 US.

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The people that know for sure won't/can't say but only hint. Just listen to the credible sources that can only hint at what they know and read between the lines.
Should they be wrong and it turns out actually get released and is spectacular then you gambled wrong. I played the odds and got a new one while I could.

seconded....from between the lines....n/a 2.4, hefty weight gain, no toyota fuel system, subaru safety tech.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by JD001

If that's the case then going by what I've seen in this forum the series 2 will be:

Wide body - rocket bunny style
Lowered on air
JDM spec lights
Twin exhaust but only one pipe
Interior footwell lights
Red trim
More red trim
Some black Australian OEM stuff
Big touch pad ICE thingy
Faux suede on dash
Arm rest (must creak)
Big "fuck-off" rear view mirror
If MT then a big gear lever
If AT then a big gear lever
Camouflage gear and handbrake covers
Funny shaped crooked foot pedals
Wiring harness that can be easily spliced

I'm sure there's more but I'll take a rest now..

I think the point is that they will compromise to meet the "wants" of the masses and not the enthusiasts, which is more power, bigger, more comfortable, 'Merica, yet they will fail because they can't match the American cars in the displacement game.

Gen 2 could be a RWD Scion tC.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I think the gen 2, if it happens, will be reminiscent of this car:

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/h...523122_600.jpg

The genesis coupe certainly wasn’t bad, and it was RWD. But it wasn’t amazing.

[Lantanafrs2]

If character means a rattle box interior and a quirky motor you can keep your character.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I think the gen 2, if it happens, will be reminiscent of this car:

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/h...523122_600.jpg

The genesis coupe certainly wasn’t bad, and it was RWD. But it wasn’t amazing.

https://carsalesbase.com/us-hyundai-genesis-coupe/

Sales weren't any better with the extra size, comfort, power, etc.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

If character means a rattle box interior and a quirky motor you can keep your character.

I think there is only so much a manufacture could do. The rattle box interior was an effort to reduce weight and cost, and the motor isn't bad for a Subaru collaboration. It could have been worse with just using direct injection or something, so that we would have been stuck trying to retrofit port injectors like other cars or trying to do expensive DI and DI pump upgrades.

Looks like Nissan has developed a solution for weight and noise.

https://www.techexplorist.com/nissan...aterial/28930/

[phm14]

Isn't the 2.4 the 2.0 block stroked out for the added CCs? If that's true, it could be possible to to do that to the current motor with a new crankshaft. For all I know, it's been done. I appreciate the insight here, as I'm not well versed on things Subie, or FA20. I'm on my second 86, buying another after owning some nice cars in between. The possibility that the 2nd gen car could lose the 86 magic, helped me go for a new '20. The auto media, as well as many enthusiasts, called for a light, affordable, high revving, MT sports car, and Toyota/Subaru made it happen. Then, almost immediately on release, the called changed to build a different car...from "Give us less!", to "Give us MORE!". "We must have more power! More expense, more weight! Get rid of of the NA 2L, and put in the same boring 2L turbo that's pulling the crossovers". The current 86 is not perfect, but it is a unique, light weight performance bargain that can be enjoyed as is, or modded to the moon. After owning a string of powerful cars that constantly have me holding back on the gas, 'cause if I don't, I can go from ticket land to ride to jail world in a few seconds. My 86 has plenty of grunt for public roads, and I don't give a crap if I can't beat a kid in a Mustang street racing. I rather be behind him on a road course getting a point by every time it gets curvy. I through a set of PSS10 coilovers on her, and the faster you go, the better she feels, at least on the road (track time on the to do list). I would't mind a bit more grunt, but keep the car light, revvy, and MT. If they keep the sole of the 86 intact, I can see myself being tempted to buy a second gen. I looked hard at the Supra, but lack of a MT, plus the BMW factor, plus the high likelihood that I would be jeopardizing my DL too frequently in another quick car...and I'm back to the 86. Toyota stays mod friendly with the Supras, and I suspect the gen 2 86 would benefit if that focus continues going forward. Sure, you give up some things to a heavier, more powerful, more expensive/luxurious car. Plenty of cars out there can be tracked right off the showroom floor, but there's something more satisfying about tuning the suspension yourself, for what works best, for you, at the time. Porsche, for example, build fast cars, so if you want plug and play, you'll pay to play. The 991.2 I had was far more capable than I can use in my locale, and we typically travel with toys, so the sports car rarely gets a road trip. It'll make you feel like a hero on track, but I don't track enough to have that money tied up in a track toy. What's important is that for the 1st time in a while, I'll grab the keys to to hit a few short patches of road, close to home, just for the fun of driving the car. I enjoy dialing in the new coilovers. Took my '13 FRS from Houston to BC Canada. Three straight days of solo driving, through some the best roads I could work into the route, loaded with 2 mountain bikes + gear, for a rendezvous with the Wife in Whistler. None of the "fun" cars I have ever owned could have made that adventure. The Twins are unique, and I hope gen 2 continues that lineage.

[phm14]

Note the lower rpm peak #s between the NA and Turbo Subie mills:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_FA_engine
I can already hear the the Tubers whining about how they miss the sound & revs of "the old NA 2L", etc...after they got the turbo they wanted. Don't expect to be happy with any car if your setting expectations with people who are in a contest of who can better nit pick, or parrot nit picks, on cars, for Youtube clicks.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by phm14

Isn't the 2.4 the 2.0 block stroked out for the added CCs?

No it’s bored out to 94mm by 86mm instead of the square 86mm by 86mm.

[Kiske]

The power dropping off in the top end is due to the limitations of the FA20dit's stock turbo sizing which was selected for a nice low end response. That trait is inherit of most factory turbocharged production cars.

If you try to overbore the FA20 to a 2.4l capacity you will inevitably punch through the cylinder wall unless you were to sleeve it. The fa24 block has thicker sidewalls.

A few companies make higher capacity engines. TODA, HKS, and MonsterSport all make increased capacity parts and complete engines. Few have went this route as the cost to play is extremely high for the small rewards. Also remember once the stroke gets longer the rpms go down.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by phm14

Isn't the 2.4 the 2.0 block stroked out for the added CCs? If that's true, it could be possible to to do that to the current motor with a new crankshaft. For all I know, it's been done.

Like it has been said, it is bored out. All EJ motors were oversquare. The FA20 is square and has a longer stroke at 86mm than the EJ's before. The FA24 is already in production and is oversquare by adding bore size, which is probably all they could do because the motor is already wide enough, and the spark plugs are a bitch to change. They would need a wider chassis to increase the stroke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_FA_engine