(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

How bad could it be?

The worst it could be for me is NO second gen 86. If they dropped the manual then that would be the second worse thing.

If you only knew...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I was actually worried that the 2nd gen wasn't going the get any of that passion which I can clearly see and appreciate. Yeah, we will find out. I am holding on to mine.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I think what they are saying is the combination of producing the batteries along with the carbon positive origin of the electrical power is not the clean we think it is. It might create less carbon per mile but it's not the zero emissions we actually see. Whether the result is reduced net carbon, the use of batteries introduces another issue. In my mind a long lived, possibly modular and reusable fuel cell system is the way to go. Continue to clean up the grid generation and set up hydrogen facilities in urbanized areas first. When are the limited-run fuel cell fleets from Toyota and Honda expanding and what was the biggest resistance before the pandemic?

hydrogen is a fools errand. electric has a higher viability, despite the limited rare earth materials it currently requires. all the tanks have a hard expiration date 10 years after production. hydrogen leaks out of everything. and currently, the best way to get it is by burning water using natural gas.
while there are methods to use solar/wind power to break down water, they don't appear to be extremely viable at this time. water might be plentiful, but there was a time where oil was considered plentiful as well. once it's gone, it ain't coming back. and water is a little more important than oil...

Originally Posted by Pouncer

Sigh. Leaving aside people who power their Teslas with rooftop solar, back in 2018, 32% of the electricity produced in California was renewable (+9% nuclear). There were times last year when we hit 59% generation from solar alone. State law requires 50% renewables by 2025, 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2045. All new homes are required to be net-zero energy use, along with all new commercial buildings starting in 2030, plus 50% of existing commercial buildings by 2030. Europe and other advanced countries are on a similar track. I won't even bother discussing the environmental damage caused by fracking.

People who equate EVs with ICE emissions are out of touch with reality as it stands today, never mind the future. I'm pretty sure the car I buy this year will be the last ICE I'll ever own.

in california. in the midwest, i'm currently working on 3 new houses. solar capability is outright unheard of in my area. there's 3 houses in 200 miles that have solar panels on their roofs. solar is mostly state-funded feel-good projects around me. the weather is too crappy here to get any meaningful gains out of it. and no one is cleaning the panels off in the dead of winter to keep them operating at peak efficiency.

i'm a supporter of diversity. i don't think there is any reason to outright abandon the established ICE methods simply because we just recently came up with a viable alternative.

[Ernest72]

The ICE will be here for a long time. The real goal is to get an EV for commuting for the public which is the most miles. Along with that when possible, trucks and buses as well. This will save oil for planes because EV commercial jets are a long way off. There will still be an enthusiast market with ICE, especially classic cars.

Plus natural gas is abundant, SUV could have a small turbine that runs on LP and the turbine charges the batteries of the EV. They are testing them on trucks. Distance would be greatly extended as you could charge battery from home and switch to LP on long trips.

The future I believe will have more options, not less. The price of these things, well who knows, but we will see.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by soundman98

hydrogen is a fools errand. electric has a higher viability, despite the limited rare earth materials it currently requires. all the tanks have a hard expiration date 10 years after production. hydrogen leaks out of everything. and currently, the best way to get it is by burning water using natural gas.
while there are methods to use solar/wind power to break down water, they don't appear to be extremely viable at this time. water might be plentiful, but there was a time where oil was considered plentiful as well. once it's gone, it ain't coming back. and water is a little more important than oil...



in california. in the midwest, i'm currently working on 3 new houses. solar capability is outright unheard of in my area. there's 3 houses in 200 miles that have solar panels on their roofs. solar is mostly state-funded feel-good projects around me. the weather is too crappy here to get any meaningful gains out of it. and no one is cleaning the panels off in the dead of winter to keep them operating at peak efficiency.

i'm a supporter of diversity. i don't think there is any reason to outright abandon the established ICE methods simply because we just recently came up with a viable alternative.

I think internal combustion survival will be determined more by manufacturers than consumers or environmental policies.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

The ICE will be here for a long time. The real goal is to get an EV for commuting for the public which is the most miles. Along with that when possible, trucks and buses as well. This will save oil for planes because EV commercial jets are a long way off. There will still be an enthusiast market with ICE, especially classic cars.

Plus natural gas is abundant, SUV could have a small turbine that runs on LP and the turbine charges the batteries of the EV. They are testing them on trucks. Distance would be greatly extended as you could charge battery from home and switch to LP on long trips.

The future I believe will have more options, not less. The price of these things, well who knows, but we will see.

that's maybe the most peculiar thing. LP conversions are barely exist right now, and get almost zero press, despite the fact that most ICE vehicles can be immediately converted with minimal hardware, and there's already a stable storage solution that exists in numbers greater than EV chargers across the country. most people seem to cite the conversion cost as prohibitive...

yes, LP isn't as clean as hydrogen and ev, but it's cleaner than gas. despite the fact that it is an oil derivative. people seem to be pushing for immediate monumental gains instead of incremental gains. which makes sense given the human race...

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by soundman98

hydrogen is a fools errand. electric has a higher viability, despite the limited rare earth materials it currently requires. all the tanks have a hard expiration date 10 years after production. hydrogen leaks out of everything. and currently, the best way to get it is by burning water using natural gas.
while there are methods to use solar/wind power to break down water, they don't appear to be extremely viable at this time. water might be plentiful, but there was a time where oil was considered plentiful as well. once it's gone, it ain't coming back. and water is a little more important than oil...

15 years ago, you could have said the same things about Battery-powered cars.

And hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapor. It's simply taking oxygen and recombining it with the hydrogen that produces the energy. So no, we will not run out of water.

And why has the 2ng gen thread become another EV debate thread!?!?

[soundman98]

because the 2nd gen is already boring

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by soundman98

because the 2nd gen is already boring

Can’t be boring if it doesn’t exist!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by soundman98

hydrogen is a fools errand.

My opinion only, but if someone had taken the task to move hydrogen forward at the same time and pace as Tesla did electrics, hydrogen would likely have won the day. It addresses all the negative of batteries, and doesn't make you change your driving style (assuming infrastructure was in place).

Hydrogen is definitely a better answer for long haul trips.

[Veloist]

I was waiting for the 2nd gen to replace my GTI lease next year...I'm still in love with everything about the 1st gens and can get a '20 tS right now at a discounted price...

From what it sounds like...from credible sources...the 2nd-gen may not have the same character as the first gens.

If only someone who knows for sure could steer me the right direction...

[JD001]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

If you only knew...

Reading between the lines should we be sticking with the series 1? Anyone who hasn't got one yet should buy before they are discontinued?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by JD001

Reading between the lines should we be sticking with the series 1? Anyone who hasn't got one yet should buy before they are discontinued?

Let’s not overreact. This is a mass produced car. Just because a 2nd gen might not be coming doesn’t mean people won’t turn their leases in. I bet we’ll have a steady supply of 3 year old sub-40k cars until at least 2023.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by JD001

Reading between the lines should we be sticking with the series 1? Anyone who hasn't got one yet should buy before they are discontinued?

they have already been discontinued. japan has gotten the 'final edition' series to commemorate that. there might be new models on their way to america, but it means no more new models are being produced right now.

all that's been confirmed is that toyota has chosen to go in a different direction with the 2nd gen, and people that were involved(but are no longer) in the 1st gen design don't agree with the direction that they're going. but this was all pre-covid confirmations. right now, we don't even know if they're going to produce a 2nd gen..

i would say to look at the scion xb gen 1(2003–2006), and gen 2(2007–2015) for guidance. straight off the wikipedia page:
"The first-generation Scion xB was very similar to its original bB inspiration, but the second-generation xB was based on American buyers' "wants" relative to the first-generation, combined with the new styling of the 2005 bB. The sales of the Scion xB plummeted after the switch from the compact first-generation to the much larger second-generation xB2."

that doesn't mean it's going to be hot garbage, but it does mean it is going to be a departure from the passion-project that the 1st gen was.