"Stage 2" bolt-ons worth it?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I think the stages were designed by companies to make purchasing easier for marketing to customers. Mostly in the Subaru community, some stages do have merit, but they have and will always be a simplification of the intention behind the product.

It can be dangerous, but honestly if someone is buying things without consulting others, they will learn that a "stage 2 clutch" from one company does not mean it is in any way comparable to another's. I'm sure you know this, but it also frustrates me and I had to find a productive way of venting.

Yeah I know. I just think it's funny and annoying since it doesn't really mean anything. It's just marketing wank that people bought into as technical terminology.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Joveen

It's a waste of money. You'll regret doing it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

They worked fine for me when I was using them. I had a OFT tune designed for them and there was no appreciable loss in high end. There are dyno's that prove this as well. On E85 they would be a determent, but if I was only on 93 NA I wouldn't hesitate to reinstall them.


Shiv's BPB tuned dyno here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...69&postcount=1

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Pet peeve of mine, but wtf does stage 2 even mean? It's like it implies there is a standard that nobody follows. Who decided what stage 2 is? Is my stage 2 the same as your stage 2? Do you have to have a stage 2 clutch if you are modded to stage 2?

It is kinda dumb when you think about it. I just couldn't think of a shorter way to title the topic. "Stages" make me think of buying upgrades on the original Playstation Gran Turismo.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by imprezive

It is kinda dumb when you think about it. I just couldn't think of a shorter way to title the topic. "Stages" make me think of buying upgrades on the original Playstation Gran Turismo.

Well back in the day when I got my 04 WRX, the stages were clear.

Stage 1 - tune alone maybe drop in filter. Everything else stock other than maybe axkeback exhaust for sound.
Stage 2 - after market up pipe / down pipe and tune as a minimum.
Stage 3 - bigger turbo and supportive mods, injectors, bigger inter cooler, boost solenoid etc.

There may be some other mods like tgv deletes and various port and polished intakes , throttle bodies, exhaust manifolds , etc that we’re done as well.

This is generally speaking and it was likely taken from some previous car that was modified in a similar way.

I would argue if you apply this to the twins.

Stage 1 - tune and drop in filter
Stage 2 - header - other exhaust changes and tune
Stage 3 - FI.

But I am not in charge of setting the stages so take it FWIW.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Joveen

It's a waste of money. You'll regret doing it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I think since you are saving for FI, what you mean is BPB is a small improvement compared to FI and not likely to satisfy your power desire if you have driven a FI car. ( my mind reading may not be that good though)

I would say that if you stay NA they are worth it for DD and autox. The price is a bit high for improvement but not out of control. I did see a copy of them on amazon for 90 bucks, so if you are cheap you could try those.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I would argue if you apply this to the twins.

Stage 1 - tune and drop in filter
Stage 2 - header - other exhaust changes and tune
Stage 3 - FI.

But I am not in charge of setting the stages so take it FWIW.

I'd say...

Stage 1 = Header and Tune (because that's the first things you really need)
Stage 2 = Intake/Drop-in, rest of exhaust system, E85 tune, etc
Stage 3 = FI or internals/full-NA build

So by my own system, I really wasn't very accurate with the "stages"

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I think since you are saving for FI, what you mean is BPB is a small improvement compared to FI and not likely to satisfy your power desire if you have driven a FI car. ( my mind reading may not be that good though)

Your psychic powers may need calibration. I'm a pretty patient person, the BPB could keep me entertained for 6-12 months. Couple hundred $$$ for a year of driving improvement would be worth it to me.

I have not driven (or rode in) a FI twin, which is probably a good thing. I enjoy the current power level and driving the car, in general, 85% of the time. Sometimes, though, I feel like car is just begging for more oomph!

[Joveen]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

They worked fine for me when I was using them. I had a OFT tune designed for them and there was no appreciable loss in high end. There are dyno's that prove this as well. On E85 they would be a determent, but if I was only on 93 NA I wouldn't hesitate to reinstall them.


Shiv's BPB tuned dyno here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...69&postcount=1

I'm only saying it's a waste because NA power on this car no matter what is trash. If you want better linear power just go supercharger. Above and beyond TURBO

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[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Your psychic powers may need calibration. I'm a pretty patient person, the BPB could keep me entertained for 6-12 months. Couple hundred $$$ for a year of driving improvement would be worth it to me.

I have not driven (or rode in) a FI twin, which is probably a good thing. I enjoy the current power level and driving the car, in general, 85% of the time. Sometimes, though, I feel like car is just begging for more oomph!

I have an 04 WRX at stage 2, so I see the lack of torque/power on a weekly basis as I switch back and forth. But I have to say the BRZ is a bit more fun through the twisties, but both are great.

In a straight line both get into illegal territory quick. The difference is I need to be in the 4K-6k rpm range for fun with the BRZ where the WRX is 2000-4500. If I am anywhere near 6000 on my WRX I am in triple digits and likely being very irresponsible on public roads.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by imprezive

I'd say...

Stage 1 = Header and Tune (because that's the first things you really need)
Stage 2 = Intake/Drop-in, rest of exhaust system, E85 tune, etc
Stage 3 = FI or internals/full-NA build

So by my own system, I really wasn't very accurate with the "stages"

So does that make catted header stg 1 and catless header stage 1.5? Does that make higher end headers stg 1.75 and a crappy header like the Megan or PLM stg .9? It's all baseless. I always laugh when they do this with clutches. I could care less about them stage number attached to it, I want to know what the torque rating is.

[imprezive]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

So does that make catted header stg 1 and catless header stage 1.5? Does that make higher end headers stg 1.75 and a crappy header like the Megan or PLM stg .9? It's all baseless. I always laugh when they do this with clutches. I could care less about them stage number attached to it, I want to know what the torque rating is.

Baseless indeed. You seem more like an engineer than a marketer

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by imprezive

Baseless indeed. You seem more like an engineer than a marketer

LOL I actually used to do a lot of marketing for the company, creating flyers and brochures. If I had an engineering degree it would say "Kellogg's Corn Flakes" on the back.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

So does that make catted header stg 1 and catless header stage 1.5? Does that make higher end headers stg 1.75 and a crappy header like the Megan or PLM stg .9? It's all baseless. I always laugh when they do this with clutches. I could care less about them stage number attached to it, I want to know what the torque rating is.

I think it just makes it easier for the typical pissing contest that happens with car guys.

Certainly easier to say stage 2, than the half a dozen mods it takes to describe the level your build is at.

Easier to say stage 2 clutch than clutch rated for XX torque.

It’s all semantics anyway. Even if we wanted too, we could never get everyone to agree on the definition of each stage. My BRZ is currently at stage 1.7223

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Joveen

I'm only saying it's a waste because NA power on this car no matter what is trash. If you want better linear power just go supercharger. Above and beyond TURBO

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Oh, ok.