GM Says They Will Dominate Tesla

[strat61caster]

I was unaware of battery longevity being a significant problem for any platform able to properly size them, it's the charge time that's holding back mass adoption, hence Tesla's investment in super capacitors.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I was unaware of battery longevity being a significant problem for any platform able to properly size them, it's the charge time that's holding back mass adoption, hence Tesla's investment in super capacitors.

Range anxiety is probably number one worry then charging locations then charging times. Just a guess.

As the battery degrades, range drops then it tapers off. By most estimates, it is around 10-15 percent, but it either continues to degrade until it is not usable, or it continues to slowly lose charge. A longer lasting battery could extend the life of the battery and/or prevent it from losing its charge as significantly.

For a car, this has big implications, but for grid storage, it has even bigger implications. Tesla is involved in grid storage and home battery storage, and there are many companies including Nissan (and probably Tesla) that are using or looking to use used car batteries in grid storage. Nissan already has an active system with used Leaf batteries powering a stadium. If a 100kW battery could run a car for 67 years then that same battery could run 10 decent sized homes for that same time or a single home for over 600 years before needing to be replaced, maybe.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I mean, two of those articles are older than the one I posted, the other just brings up that Maxwell has been working on supercapacitors, nothing groundbreaking. I still see no reason to think Tesla has any significant advantage in the battery field at this point but they're at least halfway decent at keeping things under wraps so time will tell.

You insist huh?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...e-battery/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wir...lion-miles/amp

Why don't you short some Tesla stocks?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Range anxiety is probably number one worry then charging locations then charging times. Just a guess. .

Actually, for me its all about charging times. EVs have a decent range, but when I look at using EVs for non-commute driving, charging adds significant time and inconvenience to any trip I would take roundtrip outside that range.

I've said it before but I don't care what fuel runs my car as long as the experience for refueling is not significantly different than with ICE. That includes not having to plan fuel stops, and not having to figure in refueling times to arriving at my destination by a specific time.

Once we get there, then talk to me.

[mircea]

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[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Actually, for me its all about charging times. EVs have a decent range, but when I look at using EVs for non-commute driving, charging adds significant time and inconvenience to any trip I would take roundtrip outside that range.

I've said it before but I don't care what fuel runs my car as long as the experience for refueling is not significantly different than with ICE. That includes not having to plan fuel stops, and not having to figuring in refueling times to arriving at my destination by a specific time.

Once we get there, then talk to me.

Nobody will talk to you. You can drive whatever you want just like everyone else. Fuel your car the way you want.

When/if the electric cars become more popular, you will be complaining about not enough gas stations and how great it could be if you could just charge and drive 500+ miles. If you rest 15-30 minutes every 200 miles as you should and charge while you do that, there is not a slightest inconvenience.

I am sick and tired of these pointless discussions already. I remember the LED lights inferior to incandescent bulbs, how LCD panels had so much worse than CRTs, how digital cameras were not taking as good pictures as film cameras, yada, yada, yada.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by mrg666

If you rest 15-30 minutes every 200 miles as you should and charge while you do that, there is not a slightest inconvenience.

Get that down to 5 minutes for 200 miles and you've got a competitor to gas/diesel. You talk like we're luddites, but I'd love an electric commuter car provided I have the wealth to have multiple vehicles, I'm just practical in thinking that Tesla doesn't have all the answers and Elon Musk is an egotistical salesman not a tech god.

Again, battery longevity isn't a problem, they can already outlast the majority of the other materials in the car that are costly to refurbish such as interior, suspension, or combustion engine reciprocating parts.

They didn't buy maxwell for a million mile battery, they bought maxwell because they know that the biggest barrier is the charge time. And they're not the only ones chasing that unicorn.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mrg666

When/if the electric cars become more popular, you will be complaining about not enough gas stations and how great it could be if you could just charge and drive 500+ miles. If you rest 15-30 minutes every 200 miles as you should and charge while you do that, there is not a slightest inconvenience.

I am sick and tired of these pointless discussions already. I remember the LED lights inferior to incandescent bulbs, how LCD panels had so much worse than CRTs, how digital cameras were not taking as good pictures as film cameras, yada, yada, yada.

Thanks for your sharing your (wrong) opinion of me. I think you missed my point but that's OK.

And, I was an early adopter of everything you listed there, paying a serious Geek tax for every one of them. None of those required massive changes to the way I used the product though.

As far as fueling stations, I still haven't quite understood why there isn't more of a push to make them a "one shop for all". That would seem to solve the problem and allow a more efficient spread of fueling types. Tesla (and GM and Ford and everyone else that is doing their "own thing") could have just as easily sponsored charging stations in traditional areas rather than going "specialty" on them.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Get that down to 5 minutes for 200 miles and you've got a competitor to gas/diesel. You talk like we're luddites, but I'd love an electric commuter car .

Same here. Heck, I can drive it for "free" as a commuter in terms of electricity. My electric coop allows you to charge free overnight in your home, and the company I work for has free charging stations I can see from the window of my office. I just don't want separate cars for separate types of driving.

Get to 5 minutes (or even 15 minutes) for a full charge and I'm in.

Atlis has the right idea, if they can actually get it in production. I just don't need a truck. Maybe an SUV would be OK.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Get that down to 5 minutes for 200 miles and you've got a competitor to gas/diesel. You talk like we're luddites, but I'd love an electric commuter car provided I have the wealth to have multiple vehicles, I'm just practical in thinking that Tesla doesn't have all the answers and Elon Musk is an egotistical salesman not a tech god.

Again, battery longevity isn't a problem, they can already outlast the majority of the other materials in the car that are costly to refurbish such as interior, suspension, or combustion engine reciprocating parts.

They didn't buy maxwell for a million mile battery, they bought maxwell because they know that the biggest barrier is the charge time. And they're not the only ones chasing that unicorn.

It is not a unicorn since the technology can be improved in many ways. They are working on increasing charge capacity either to reduce battery weight or increase range or both while increasing the charge rate. These improvements will come to market very soon since alternative chemistry is already known. It just takes time to optimize for mass production. Before Tesla and others, scaling those new chemistry options to market was not economically viable. Now it is. Please google if you are interested and you will see alternative chemistry options MIT, IBM, Maxwell, Tesla, and many others have been working on.

You find him egotistical but I don't think it means anything. At least it didn't matter when Wall Street wanted to take him down. It is so funny and too bad that they lost those billions while shorting Tesla. It still amuses me and I am sure their butts are still hurt. He is the most brilliant businessman in the world, ask Lockheed, Boeing, GM, Ford, Toyota, and all others, oh ask Bezos how Blue Origin is fairing compared to SpaceX. Whatever he did, nobody could match so far. His achievements are out there, opinions don't matter anymore. Jury is already in (not still out).

Let's wait and see. I will be watching with great pleasure. In the mean time, he will be launching the first astronauts from US soil after more than a decade next month.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Thanks for your sharing your (wrong) opinion of me. I think you missed my point but that's OK.

And, I was an early adopter of everything you listed there, paying a serious Geek tax for everyone of them. None of those required massive changes to the way I used the product though.

As far as fueling stations, I still haven't quite understood why there isn't more of a push to make them a "one shop for all". That would seem to solve the problem and allow a more efficient spread of fueling types. Tesla (and GM and Ford and everyone else that is doing their "own thing") could have just as easily sponsored charging stations in traditional areas rather than going "specialty" on them.

When it comes to oil and automotive, none of those companies ruling this multi trillion dollar market are willing move anything an inch away from their profitable system. There are wars going on and thousands are dying every year to sustain this economy and business of those companies. Their political and marketing brainwash is almost impossible to beat. And there is Tesla making progress against these odds. That is something to appreciate ... at least I do.

I apologize for misunderstanding.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mrg666

When it comes to oil and automotive, none of those companies ruling this multi trillion dollar market are willing move anything an inch away from their profitable system.

I was thinking more of independent fuel chains, not the ones tied to a specific producer. Chains like Racetrac, QT and others that are set up for "lingering fuelers" I would think would welcome the additional traffic, particularly if they are going to hanging around for a while.

Originally Posted by mrg666

I apologize for misunderstanding.

No worries, my argument does nibble around the borders of exactly what you were saying, I'm just willing to actually move forward at some point, when the tech is right for me.

I'm getting ready to enter a cycle of replacing vehicles. It is very possible one of them will be electric. It just won't be a Tesla, not because I hate Tesla or Musk, I just don't like their designs. I'm waiting to see what GM, Ford and Honda are planning in the next 2 to 5 years.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I was thinking more of independent fuel chains, not the ones tied to a specific producer. Chains like Racetrac, QT and others that are set up for "lingering fuelers" I would think would welcome the additional traffic, particularly if they are going to hanging around for a while.



No worries, my argument does nibble around the borders of exactly what you were saying, I'm just willing to actually move forward at some point, when the tech is right for me.

I'm getting ready to enter a cycle of replacing vehicles. It is very possible one of them will be electric. It just won't be a Tesla, not because I hate Tesla or Musk, I just don't like their designs. I'm waiting to see what GM, Ford and Honda are planning in the next 2 to 5 years.

I can't deny I would miss the vibration, sound, heat, and breathing of gas engines. That gives some character and relates to our living metabolism. I will enjoy my FR-S until then.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm getting ready to enter a cycle of replacing vehicles. It is very possible one of them will be electric. It just won't be a Tesla, not because I hate Tesla or Musk, I just don't like their designs. I'm waiting to see what GM, Ford and Honda are planning in the next 2 to 5 years.

I also don't particularly care for the Tesla's design language much more than other brands, but lately, I haven't cared for Toyota's design language at all, especially on the Lexus line. I tend to like Audi/VW and Honda. BMW goes through phases. Ford is ok. GM is ok. Hit or miss.

I would probably buy a Model Y for the wife to support an American product, which I have never done, and I like the tech and over air updates. VW would be next for me or the Audi Q-Tron. We have a lot of time left on the BRZ and Q5, so nothing is on the radar. Just speculation.