2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The 2021 Supra is another example of why you should never buy a first year model of a brand new platform.

Well SOMEBODY has to buy them or there may not be a second year.

[mazeroni]

Wait, what is different between the B58 in the Z4 and the B58 in the Supra? A bunch of Dynos showed that the Supra was making closer to 400 crank and could be easily modded to 5-700 with a tune and bolt-ons. Are we suggesting that the 2021 Supra will actually be making 450 crank now because it got 50 more hp in the marketing material, or is the engine actually mechanically different?

[Dake]

While I feel bad for the "average" buyer - I absolutely love the speculator tears.

That being said, even I am a little surprised that they made the shift so quickly. I think it's evidence they didn't really plan their roll out well, and now they're trying to play catch up.

I don't think the Supra is selling near as well as they hoped. I live in Houston where I see people DD'ing all manner of things, and I've still never seen a Supra on the road or at any Cars and Coffees. I see LC500s and even Mk IV Supras fairly regularly, but no sign of this.

[Sapphireho]

I got an email from Toyota trying to sell me one.

[guitarman]

Gotta give Toyota credit for tweaking the Supra right away rather than resting on laurels for a few years. The 4-cylinder version is also a smart move.

....and while I was not a fan of the looks initially, it’s actually somehow starting to grow on me....I can envision picking up a used 2021 Supra in a few years if I saw a good deal on one.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Dake

While I feel bad for the "average" buyer - I absolutely love the speculator tears.

That being said, even I am a little surprised that they made the shift so quickly. I think it's evidence they didn't really plan their roll out well, and now they're trying to play catch up.

I don't think the Supra is selling near as well as they hoped. I live in Houston where I see people DD'ing all manner of things, and I've still never seen a Supra on the road or at any Cars and Coffees. I see LC500s and even Mk IV Supras fairly regularly, but no sign of this.

The average buyer has never properly driven the car except for blasts on the freeway and has probably never taken TC off except for doughnuts in an empty parking lot. I doubt they would notice that much with the new upgrades. I have seen a few out and about here in OR, and I saw a Silver one when I was in Houston a month ago. There is one local to me for sale used, think he wants 59K lol. Has 1200 or so miles.

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Wait, what is different between the B58 in the Z4 and the B58 in the Supra? A bunch of Dynos showed that the Supra was making closer to 400 crank and could be easily modded to 5-700 with a tune and bolt-ons. Are we suggesting that the 2021 Supra will actually be making 450 crank now because it got 50 more hp in the marketing material, or is the engine actually mechanically different?

It is mechanically different.

[mazeroni]

I went back to page 3 and saw the mechanical changes that they made. I sort of see why people might be kind of upset. But then again, in all the history of the world, early adopters are rarely rewarded for their support. This shouldn't be shocking. Even Toyota has said they want the Supra to undergo many evolutions over its life.

And yes, if this means that first year Supra models depreciate faster, I'm all for it because then it might actually be obtainable to someone like me in a few years.

[BA9092]

Wow! Current Supra owners are really fuming over the 14% power increase, huh? Even despite Tada-san's explicit remarks last summer about improving performance frequently throughout the platform's run. Surprised? I'm not.

You can be in the "I was the first to get the new Supra!" crowd or get the latest and greatest. You can't have it both ways.

I'll be happy to take that low-mileage 2020 3.0 off your hands for low $40k's. Lol.

I just wished the our twins' platform followed a bit of that recipe:

Supra 2020: "It's fast and powerful!"
Supra 2021: "How about 47hp more?"

BRZ/86 2012: "It needs more power!"
BRZ/86 2017: "Here's another 5hp."

[Tcoat]

LOL so far the petition doesn't look like it will be all that effective.
Evan is so important he get's to sign twice.
At least a couple probably don't even own a Supra.
And... One guy in Canada seems to be less than sympathetic (it was NOT me).

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

This must mean the 2nd gen 86 will not have 250hp. 230hp might be a stretch too......

So im guessing its going to be 200hp again and still be slower than minivans!

You are absolutely right. The 4 cylinder Supra now sets the absolute ceiling for the next generation BRZ/86. There is no way Toyota will let the next BRZ/86 threaten Supra sales. Like Porsche did with the 911 and Cayman, this means they will keep the BRZ/86 performance and power noticeably below the Supra out of fear of cannibalizing sales. 250 hp and 5.0 sec 0-60 for the Supra means a likely cap of somewhere around 215-220 hp for the BRZ/86, and a 0-60 time of closer to 6 sec.

There's always hoping for a next-generation Nissan Z. Various stories and rumors speculate that Nissan is working on the car, which would be powered by a 400 hp twin turbo 3.0 liter V6, and be available with a manual transmission. But Nissan is in such a financial mess these days. They are in complete crisis survival mode. It's hard to see how they could come up with the money to develop what will at best be a small-volume niche car at a time when they're making their employees stop traveling and are doing massive layoffs.

Oh well. I'm glad I bought my 2019 when I did. Looks like the next generation car won't be offering any dramatic improvements in power.

[DandoX]

BUT the 4 cylinder supra is so lacking compared to the upper trim I think that will not do well. Smaller brakes, no active dampers, no active diff, 3,181 pounds. I think that even if the new gen twin is like 25-30hp less than the 4 Supra, that weight will make a difference. If the new 86 is a similar weight to the current one then it likely will be around 300lbs lighter than the new 4 supra. I would be interested to see how the new 86 compares to the 4Supra on the track in stock form.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well SOMEBODY has to buy them or there may not be a second year.

When was the last model of car that only existed for one year?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by DandoX

BUT the 4 cylinder supra is so lacking compared to the upper trim I think that will not do well. Smaller brakes, no active dampers, no active diff, 3,181 pounds. I think that even if the new gen twin is like 25-30hp less than the 4 Supra, that weight will make a difference. If the new 86 is a similar weight to the current one then it likely will be around 300lbs lighter than the new 4 supra. I would be interested to see how the new 86 compares to the 4Supra on the track in stock form.

If the engine they used is a BMW, I suspect the 4 Supra will win that easily. The problem is the 86 will sound like a much better deal on paper if it gets a similar hp rating, so we can say goodbye to that na2.4 that at least I was hoping for.

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

You are absolutely right. The 4 cylinder Supra now sets the absolute ceiling for the next generation BRZ/86. There is no way Toyota will let the next BRZ/86 threaten Supra sales. Like Porsche did with the 911 and Cayman, this means they will keep the BRZ/86 performance and power noticeably below the Supra out of fear of cannibalizing sales. 250 hp and 5.0 sec 0-60 for the Supra means a likely cap of somewhere around 215-220 hp for the BRZ/86, and a 0-60 time of closer to 6 sec.

Perhaps... but then again, what exactly does Toyota lose by cannibalizing the low end of the Supra? It seems like the real loser would be BMW, since they bear the brunt of both manufacturing and engineering for the Supra.

IMHO Toyota doesn't really care if BMW recoups its costs or not, and in this type of arrangement there is typically not a lot of profit for the company that rebrands another company's product in the low end cars anyway. BMW is not selling this car to Toyota at cost...

If the next generation truly is based on Toyota's TNA then they might actually make more money on a highly optioned GR86 than a base Supra.

Pure speculation on my part...