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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 11-08-2019, 04:44 PM   #71
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Has anyone actually driven anything in Toyota's lineup that isn't the Supra/86? (Funny enough the cars they don't make in house).

They're bland pigs, void of any steering feel or excitement. Yeah the new corolla is a huge step up from the previous gen, but feel and engagement is way behind Honda.
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Old 11-10-2019, 02:01 AM   #72
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Old Camry's are easy and satisfying to own. I've found enjoyment in fixing up my family's old beater which is just pure high mileage goodness:



But yeah I look warily at those people I see speeding past on the highway in 20-year old Camrys. Most models of these don't even come with ABS, have terrible brake dive at 40 mph, and stability and safety isn't suited for driving much faster than 55 mph.

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Old 11-10-2019, 04:02 PM   #73
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Old Camry's are easy and satisfying to own. I've found enjoyment in fixing up my family's old beater which is just pure high mileage goodness:



But yeah I look warily at those people I see speeding past on the highway in 20-year old Camrys. Most models of these don't even come with ABS, have terrible brake dive at 40 mph, and stability and safety isn't suited for driving much faster than 55 mph.
ABS doesn't stop a vehicle.

brake dive is about how you use it. there's a stop sign by my shop that no one pays attention to. i use the brake dive of my work van while laying on the horn to get people to realize that i have the right of way when they try going while i'm in the middle of the intersection.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:34 AM   #74
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Has anyone actually driven anything in Toyota's lineup that isn't the Supra/86? (Funny enough the cars they don't make in house).

They're bland pigs, void of any steering feel or excitement. Yeah the new corolla is a huge step up from the previous gen, but feel and engagement is way behind Honda.
This is what 99% of the driving public is after. They want a car that does all the work with the least amount of attention possible. They have zero interest in excitement or engagement.
Not sure that the majority of Hondas are any better than anything else. I have drove my daughter in laws base Civic sedan several times and it was anything but exciting.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:41 AM   #75
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Not sure that the majority of Hondas are any better than anything else. I have drove my daughter in laws base Civic sedan several times and it was anything but exciting.
Agree with that. In my immediate family circle there are 3 Accords, a CRV and a Pilot. I've driven them all and found that for the most part, if they were self-driving it would be an improvement on the experience.

Not to mention the seats are hard as rocks, and on two of them the brake systems basically go from no brakes to a panic stop in about 1/4" of travel.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:54 AM   #76
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This is what 99% of the driving public is after. They want a car that does all the work with the least amount of attention possible. They have zero interest in excitement or engagement.
Not sure that the majority of Hondas are any better than anything else. I have drove my daughter in laws base Civic sedan several times and it was anything but exciting.

Definitely a far cry from 86 or any sporting nature. They're all numb over assisted power steering, but the Honda's in a back to back with a toyota definitely feel "more engaging" in terms of chassis tuning and handling. You don't know what you're missing until you drive a Corolla.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:19 AM   #77
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Definitely a far cry from 86 or any sporting nature. They're all numb over assisted power steering, but the Honda's in a back to back with a toyota definitely feel "more engaging" in terms of chassis tuning and handling. You don't know what you're missing until you drive a Corolla.
LOL I have never driven a Corolla in my life and have no intention of starting now.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:38 AM   #78
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Definitely a far cry from 86 or any sporting nature. They're all numb over assisted power steering, but the Honda's in a back to back with a toyota definitely feel "more engaging" in terms of chassis tuning and handling. You don't know what you're missing until you drive a Corolla.
I had a Corolla as a rental from Toyota during my recall nightmare. The electronic e-brake was really lame. The seats were basically cardboard with cloth on them. Connecting my phone to the head unit to play music was more involved than I would've liked. The brakes were so touchy that it was a battle to not engage ABS at every stop sign in snow.

I will say that the car felt planted, there wasn't much body roll and the car felt stable at even interstate speed. They've done a great job with a vehicle that is meant to just protect you from the rain in traffic.
I'd settle for a pre-OBD2 Toyota product any day compared to the marshmallows that the general public love today!
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:45 PM   #79
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What's up with Camry XSE drivers? They seem to think their Camry are race cars just because its got the black roof and dual exhaust. Almost all of them I see drive very aggressively, weaving in and out of traffic and WOT at the stop light. Most are driven by middle age men, probably making up for other inadequacies.
I often jump off the line with people who aren't expecting an old man car to launch. It just so happens my hair has been going gray for the last 15 years, in preparation for this very forum thread. Bobbing and weaving though, that's not my style. As for the inadequacies.. that's life
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #80
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Isn't it sad when a motherfunking Camry smokes a 86?
No.
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I agree, if you are hammering on it getting great shifts and if both cars start from a dead stop with the intention of drag racing. I think it would be very close. It would require a lot more talent to go that fast in a manual twin than the fat footed AT Camry driver.
I think it is more that 86 drivers are caught off guard when some v6 Camry takes off out of nowhere at an increased speed, like the Camry driver has forethought of I'm going to gun it and overtake this twin, and twin driver can only react by the time the Camry has all its speed gathered up. Making it appear that the Camry is just a drag monster but in reality the Camry thought about it and started revving it up well before the twin driver even noticed, and by the time they notice they just see this howling Camry fly by.The thing is v6 Camry drivers like to justify their car by overtaking lower power sports cars, but only when they sneak up on them and use their sleeper status so surprise and pass, because who expects a Camry to explode with that kind of speed.
In fact it is the same thing with the Model 3, they drive slow as balls 90% of the time, but when they go fast, it takes everyone off guard.
(all in a straight line of course)
No. This is lame. You floor it in first gear and you'll beat 90% of drivers in 90% of vehicles on the road today in almost every situation. I guarantee the driver of the Camry always floors it because they are sick of being behind shit for brains that drive 10 below the speed limit everywhere and just want to get going. They don't even notice any other car. My mother is like this. Normal people just don't care and aren't concerned and are fine going slow as crap no matter what.

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Now it means you get bigger wheels and extra cup holders.
Are you sure? Or are those just options? The Dodge model and option list is totally insane, and must be a relic from the 50's. It seems to be made so absolutely no one can understand it, so a car salesperson can always make sure the buyer feels they are getting a good dead.

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Has anyone actually driven anything in Toyota's lineup that isn't the Supra/86? (Funny enough the cars they don't make in house).
They're bland pigs, void of any steering feel or excitement. Yeah the new corolla is a huge step up from the previous gen, but feel and engagement is way behind Honda.
Nope. The Yaris when it came out was popular in autocross and scca, and has actually won in both. Mine was fun, and after changing out the suspension it was a total blast. You are thinking of honda from the early 90's, which has zero relevance to today. Honda doesn't care anymore.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:14 PM   #81
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Are you sure? Or are those just options? The Dodge model and option list is totally insane, and must be a relic from the 50's. It seems to be made so absolutely no one can understand it, so a car salesperson can always make sure the buyer feels they are getting a good dead.

No. It was an exaggeration of the fact that there are so many trim levels now that simply calling it an R/T does not mean it comes equipped like an R/T of the 70s. Now to get the whole package you have to order the SRT Scat Pack Version III Mk 12 Type 26 with option packages 2, 7, 19 and 26.
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:20 PM   #82
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This is lame. You floor it in first gear and you'll beat 90% of drivers in 90% of vehicles on the road today in almost every situation.

This really depends on the area you live. When I lived in the bay area of Ca I took off and went ahead of pretty much most drivers. However now Im in the LA orange county area and things are quite different, the roads have higher speed limits, more stop lights and people have nicer/faster cars. I would say about a half the time Im the quickest from a stop on average, there is often a tesla or some other car just stomping the gas and taking off like a bat out of hell. Most of the time I just go at my own pace, which means taking a bit more time to row through my gears at first but eventually passing everyone who took off because they slow down the second they hit around 50mph. I have been beaten off the line by a whole range of embarrassing cars in my FRS, it doesn't bother me because A. it isn't a race, B. like I said I end up passing them further down the road most of the time anyway. C. drag racing is not what these cars are good at so no point in trying to speed off the line every time (except for my own personal enjoyment).

Also those v6 Camrys can hit 60 in 5.8. A twin with a manual transmission just can't keep up. A twin 0-60 is around 6.2 so no point in trying to pretend like those bigger engine Camrys can't smoke a twin off the line and that shouldn't bother anyone because these cars excel in nimble corners not straight line acceleration.
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:53 PM   #83
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Driving in SoCal sucks

Had a I4 Camry rental during recall, it was fine, quiet spacious interior, just enough power to get out of it's own way, there's a reason they sell like half a million of them a year.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:16 PM   #84
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This really depends on the area you live. When I lived in the bay area of Ca I took off and went ahead of pretty much most drivers. However now Im in the LA orange county area and things are quite different, the roads have higher speed limits, more stop lights and people have nicer/faster cars. I would say about a half the time Im the quickest from a stop on average, there is often a tesla or some other car just stomping the gas and taking off like a bat out of hell. Most of the time I just go at my own pace, which means taking a bit more time to row through my gears at first but eventually passing everyone who took off because they slow down the second they hit around 50mph. I have been beaten off the line by a whole range of embarrassing cars in my FRS, it doesn't bother me because A. it isn't a race, B. like I said I end up passing them further down the road most of the time anyway. C. drag racing is not what these cars are good at so no point in trying to speed off the line every time (except for my own personal enjoyment).

Also those v6 Camrys can hit 60 in 5.8. A twin with a manual transmission just can't keep up. A twin 0-60 is around 6.2 so no point in trying to pretend like those bigger engine Camrys can't smoke a twin off the line and that shouldn't bother anyone because these cars excel in nimble corners not straight line acceleration.
I drive in SoCal now and while what you say is true about drivers here gunning it from lights, if you're in a Twin and floor it from a light, you'll still be ahead 95 percent of the time. I drove like that for a while after getting the J02 recall done and was surprised how often I was far ahead of traffic.

The rare exception was when the driver of the car next to you took it as a race and started trying to get ahead (looking at you 370z, WRX and BMW owners). That's annoying because you're basically forced to slow down or risk some cop thinking you're street racing the idiot next to you.
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