Looking at a Miata after the FR-S

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

¿What influence has the MX-5 had on the 86?

by demonstrating there is a market for cheap rwd sports cars. I'm sure it has further influence but showing the demand for such cars is the biggest and most obvious.



Are you suggesting the MX-5 existence has had zero impact on the twins?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by DandoX

by demonstrating there is a market for cheap rwd sports cars. I'm sure it has further influence but showing the demand for such cars is the biggest and most obvious.



Are you suggesting the MX-5 existence has had zero impact on the twins?

Ever heard of the AE86?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by DandoX

by demonstrating there is a market for cheap rwd sports cars. I'm sure it has further influence but showing the demand for such cars is the biggest and most obvious.



Are you suggesting the MX-5 existence has had zero impact on the twins?

It's been debated to no end, but the goal of the 86 wasn't to ever be a market topping success, neither was it to capture some market that is slowly dying.

Further, go to any car show and look at the people looking at each vehicle. The crowds surrounding the MX-5 are usually older and if younger, female (nothing wrong with this), but the crowds surrounding the twins are zit infested, snapback wearing, teenagers that think a twin is fast just because of their looks.

An MX-5 is really for people who can't justify or even afford buying a Boxster. So in part, I wouldn't say the MX-5 had zero impact, but it's definitely next to none.

If anything, the Mustang is the sole reason for the 86 being created, as it's cheap, RWD and commands the largest share of this market segment based on your argument.

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

It's been debated to no end, but the goal of the 86 wasn't to ever be a market topping success, neither was it to capture some market that is slowly dying.

Further, go to any car show and look at the people looking at each vehicle. The crowds surrounding the MX-5 are usually older and if younger, female (nothing wrong with this), but the crowds surrounding the twins are zit infested, snapback wearing, teenagers that think a twin is fast just because of their looks.

An MX-5 is really for people who can't justify or even afford buying a Boxster. So in part, I wouldn't say the MX-5 had zero impact, but it's definitely next to none.

If anything, the Mustang is the sole reason for the 86 being created, as it's cheap, RWD and commands the largest share of this market segment based on your argument.

Well we can't know for sure if it was inspired or not without getting info from the creators.

What we do know is before the twins came out if you wanted a small cheap rwd sports car with a focus on handling, you where pretty much stuck with the mx-5. The mx-5 was dominating a niche market and Toyota wanted a piece of that, give buyers options other than a Mx-5. In selling the idea of the twins I think it is very likely they used the stable mx-5 buyers market as an example for why this makes sense. So to say the mx-5 (a cheap rwd icon for many years) has had next to zero impact on the twins I think is naive. When the twins came out if you compare the specs to the previous gen mx-5, the twins beat it in every category ( even if just by a little) I think that's more than just happenstance.

The mustang buyers market has less in common with the MX-5 buyers market than with the twins. I would be willing to bet that folks researching buying an mx-5 cross shop a twin more often than a mustang buyer cross shops a twin. You can even go on youtube and count how many comparison videos feature a twin and a mustang vs a twin and a mx-5.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Further, go to any car show and look at the people looking at each vehicle.

What's a "car show"?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tjM8eEqUo[/ame]

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

If anything, the Mustang is the sole reason for the 86 being created, as it's cheap, RWD and commands the largest share of this market segment based on your argument.

The 86 has more in common with the MX5 than Mustang based on sheer size and weight.

[Johnny Horsepower]

I did some more test drives this weekend.

Genesis Coupe: Surprisingly nice, outstanding brakes, good power, but very heavy. I like the torque and oil temperature gauges. My wife says it's more like her Prius than I realize. While I don't think it feels like the Prius at all, it doesn't feel very sporty.

370Z: I've always thought this car looked like it was trying too hard to be in the next Fast & Furious movie, but this one was beautiful. Not sure if it was the color (black) or some minor styling changes from what I had seen before.

We don't find out until we get into the car that it's a manual. Now my wife learned to drive on a manual and once owned a manual truck as her sole vehicle, so I get out and ask the salesman to take her license and insurance info. My wife asks what's the point of her test driving it if it's going to be my car, but I say no, this is perfect, we'll just pull over somewhere and switch.

She said it had been a while, and it showed. A couple of stalls, a couple of "shit, shit" moments, and constant lurching that was just painful to watch. She got considerably better after a few minutes. However, one thing never got better: the car shook violently on every shift. Is that supposed to happen, or is it driver error? Several of the manual drivers I had ridden with had this happen.

Based on my wife's performance, I think there's not much point in my trying it. If that's how she drives a manual after years of practice (albeit long ago), I'm certainly not going to master it during this test drive. But I give it a try. We switch places in a small parking lot at an office park, on a slight incline. After 4 failed attempts to put it in gear, I have rolled backwards enough to block traffic. OK, so that's a hard pass on the manual.

Miata (with my wife this time): I get the exact same car as last time. I still love it, and so does my wife. This time I notice that it could really use a digital speedometer, but I guess that's a pretty small complaint. I'm curious about trying a slightly older model (with 155 hp) or a lower trim level though.

Mustang: I first get into the lowest level trim because the price fits, but it has no gas, so I get into an upgraded one with like 380 horsepower. I like the 10 speed automatic and the controls for different driving modes. Traffic prevents me from doing too much, but I can tell it's a fast car, if not a great handler. Not really my style, though I wouldn't mind renting one.

The Miata is still my favorite (with the 86 being #2). I might test drive a 370Z automatic, a BMW 2 series, or a Kia Stinger, but I don't think I'll change my mind.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What's a "car show"?

Remember that show on BBC that had 3 old dudes on it doing stupid stuff and driving cars. That's a car show.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Well we can't know for sure if it was inspired or not without getting info from the creators.

What we do know is before the twins came out if you wanted a small cheap rwd sports car with a focus on handling, you where pretty much stuck with the mx-5. The mx-5 was dominating a niche market and Toyota wanted a piece of that, give buyers options other than a Mx-5. In selling the idea of the twins I think it is very likely they used the stable mx-5 buyers market as an example for why this makes sense. So to say the mx-5 (a cheap rwd icon for many years) has had next to zero impact on the twins I think is naive. When the twins came out if you compare the specs to the previous gen mx-5, the twins beat it in every category ( even if just by a little) I think that's more than just happenstance.

The mustang buyers market has less in common with the MX-5 buyers market than with the twins. I would be willing to bet that folks researching buying an mx-5 cross shop a twin more often than a mustang buyer cross shops a twin. You can even go on youtube and count how many comparison videos feature a twin and a mustang vs a twin and a mx-5.

Toyota knows how to make money. Making a car for a dying "niche" market with the intention of claiming some small share of it is not how you make money. Don't be so jaded. The Corolla, Camry and Trucks/SUVs make money.

You're also adding things to what you did not say, things that I know, but again, the niche of who cares about performance is not who the car was marketed to, they're just a very lucky small group of individuals who benefit.

Originally Posted by DandoX

by demonstrating there is a market for cheap rwd sports cars. I'm sure it has further influence but showing the demand for such cars is the biggest and most obvious.

You literally said cheap RWD. Mustang is cheap, cheaper than an 86 in fact, RWD, and happens to be the "biggest" in demand for such cars.

Originally Posted by TommyW

The 86 has more in common with the MX5 than Mustang based on sheer size and weight.

Thanks.

[James H]

Originally Posted by Johnny Horsepower

I did some more test drives this weekend.

Genesis Coupe: Surprisingly nice, outstanding brakes, good power, but very heavy. I like the torque and oil temperature gauges. My wife says it's more like her Prius than I realize. While I don't think it feels like the Prius at all, it doesn't feel very sporty.

370Z: I've always thought this car looked like it was trying too hard to be in the next Fast & Furious movie, but this one was beautiful. Not sure if it was the color (black) or some minor styling changes from what I had seen before.

We don't find out until we get into the car that it's a manual. Now my wife learned to drive on a manual and once owned a manual truck as her sole vehicle, so I get out and ask the salesman to take her license and insurance info. My wife asks what's the point of her test driving it if it's going to be my car, but I say no, this is perfect, we'll just pull over somewhere and switch.

She said it had been a while, and it showed. A couple of stalls, a couple of "shit, shit" moments, and constant lurching that was just painful to watch. She got considerably better after a few minutes. However, one thing never got better: the car shook violently on every shift. Is that supposed to happen, or is it driver error? Several of the manual drivers I had ridden with had this happen.

Based on my wife's performance, I think there's not much point in my trying it. If that's how she drives a manual after years of practice (albeit long ago), I'm certainly not going to master it during this test drive. But I give it a try. We switch places in a small parking lot at an office park, on a slight incline. After 4 failed attempts to put it in gear, I have rolled backwards enough to block traffic. OK, so that's a hard pass on the manual.

Miata (with my wife this time): I get the exact same car as last time. I still love it, and so does my wife. This time I notice that it could really use a digital speedometer, but I guess that's a pretty small complaint. I'm curious about trying a slightly older model (with 155 hp) or a lower trim level though.

Mustang: I first get into the lowest level trim because the price fits, but it has no gas, so I get into an upgraded one with like 380 horsepower. I like the 10 speed automatic and the controls for different driving modes. Traffic prevents me from doing too much, but I can tell it's a fast car, if not a great handler. Not really my style, though I wouldn't mind renting one.

The Miata is still my favorite (with the 86 being #2). I might test drive a 370Z automatic, a BMW 2 series, or a Kia Stinger, but I don't think I'll change my mind.

If you do end up buying the Genesis, don't be one of those people who change the Hyundai logo to the wing thing. When I see that I have absolutely zero respect for their owners who seem to be ashamed of the brand of car they are driving. They may as well put a BMW logo there. It just makes them look worse. Never understand what reaction they expect? Car enthusiast know it's a Hyundai. Those who don't are going to say "is it a Bentley, oh, it's Hyundai LOL"

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

You're also adding things to what you did not say, things that I know, but again, the niche of who cares about performance is not who the car was marketed to, they're just a very lucky small group of individuals who benefit.

You literally said cheap RWD. Mustang is cheap, cheaper than an 86 in fact, RWD, and happens to be the "biggest" in demand for such cars.

Thanks.

Dude I have a hard time following this reply but I think it is pretty obvious the twins existence was in some way influenced by the MX-5 if only to show there are people who want the car and to give engineers competition target values to try and exceed.

I don't know why your so adamant about there being zero influence, we can't know for sure without hearing from those involved with the creation. Just form the similarities the MX-5 and the twins have, to me it seems common sense that there was some influence. To use an analogy it is like saying the ps4 has had zero influence from xbox, which again is naive.

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Toyota knows how to make money. Making a car for a dying "niche" market with the intention of claiming some small share of it is not how you make money. Don't be so jaded. The Corolla, Camry and Trucks/SUVs make money.

Oh I didn't realize I was talking to an expert on marketing vehicles and corporate strategy, I apologize.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Dude I have a hard time following this reply but I think it is pretty obvious the twins existence was in some way influenced by the MX-5 if only to show there are people who want the car and to give engineers competition target values to try and exceed.

I don't know why your so adamant about there being zero influence, we can't know for sure without hearing from those involved with the creation. Just form the similarities the MX-5 and the twins have, to me it seems common sense that there was some influence.

That's likely due to your reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

An MX-5 is really for people who can't justify or even afford buying a Boxster. So in part, I wouldn't say the MX-5 had zero impact, but it's definitely next to none.

If anything, the Mustang is the sole reason for the 86 being created, as it's cheap, RWD and commands the largest share of this market segment based on your argument.

Originally Posted by DandoX

Oh I didn't realize I was talking to an expert on marketing vehicles and corporate strategy, I apologize.

I thought it was obvious Economy cars and Trucks/SUVs sell very well. Guess not.

Originally Posted by DandoX

To use an analogy it is like saying the ps4 has had zero influence from xbox, which again is naive.

No.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

An MX-5 is really for people who can't justify or even afford buying a Boxster.

I don't think this gives the car and at least some Miata owners fair credit. Mazda is producing a legit minimalist lightweight sports car. Porsche should be but isn't... Boxster/Cayman make excellent luxury/sport Grand Tourers tho (and I say this as owner of an '11 base Cayman).

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

That's likely due to your reading comprehension.






I thought it was obvious Economy cars and Trucks/SUVs sell very well. Guess not.



No.

Geez dude, relax. No need to get so feisty. Insulting people is not nice, you must be one of the most abrasive Canadians I've ever interacted with.

I'm just not following your disagreements because your all over place. I thought we we interacting like adults but instead of replying with thoughtful counter points or explaining what you mean a little more clearly, you gotta go and throw insults around.

Does belittling others over the internet really make you feel better? Come on man, if I knew you in person we would be friends so no need to get defensive or angry. Come down to SoCal and I will gladly buy you a beer.