86 vs new Supra--review by TFL car

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Lower cg is a lower cg, regardless of how they got there. It's not necessarily indicative of chassis behavior if the car is heavier though. What does matter is the roll moment which might actually be higher because of the added weight overall.

Not to mention that anything you do to lower the COG on an 86 you can do to a Supra. It is sort of the same as comparing a FI 86 to a stock Porsche, Mustang, BMW, etc and saying it has more power.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by evoto86

Not sure if I'm happy that its a hybrid of sorts, because you can say that the last Supra was 80% a Grand Tourer free way pulls are its bread and butter its not to comfortable on tight canyon roads although you could modify it to be,not a lot of people bother going down that avenue with a Supra. The new Supra is probably 50/50 or possible leaning slightly more to just being a sports car then a Grand Tourer, size comparisons show its not much bigger than a 86 if at all. Its got no massive wing like the last one (Rule one of Grand Tourer club, you have to have a massive Wing to be in Grand tourer club) and although it shares similar styling ques its all very busy with its body lines compared to the last one. It just looks like a sports car plain and simple if they didn't call it a Supra I would have a very hard time even putting into a Grand tourer category, it just barely slots in there.

Not sure why a "canyon car" can't do "highway pulls". Is it too slow to race your buddies on the highway illegally?

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by evoto86

Not sure if I'm happy that its a hybrid of sorts, because you can say that the last Supra was 80% a Grand Tourer free way pulls are its bread and butter its not to comfortable on tight canyon roads although you could modify it to be,not a lot of people bother going down that avenue with a Supra. The new Supra is probably 50/50 or possible leaning slightly more to just being a sports car then a Grand Tourer, size comparisons show its not much bigger than a 86 if at all. Its got no massive wing like the last one (Rule one of Grand Tourer club, you have to have a massive Wing to be in Grand tourer club) and although it shares similar styling ques its all very busy with its body lines compared to the last one. It just looks like a sports car plain and simple if they didn't call it a Supra I would have a very hard time even putting into a Grand tourer category, it just barely slots in there.

The size is very close to an 86. Add 650lbs to an 86 and what do you get? The reason the Supra "feels light" (This is what the press is saying) is because of the added power.

So, in my mind, it leans more towards the GT car. However, I will reserve my final judgement until I drive one.

Another reason to stick with the 86 is the aftermarket. It's massive and prices have settled. You can get just about anything for this car now at reasonable prices. That will takes years to happen with the Supra, if ever, depending on sales.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by HachiRokuX

I don’t get the “lower center of gravity than an 86” stuff. Isn’t it only because the car is like .5 inches lower than an 86 from the factory? I imagine my 86 dropped 2-2.5 inches has a lower center of gravity than a stock 86 or Supra.


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Even a 1" modest drop on a 86 would take it at, or slightly under Supra territory. I'm not sure what the GR trim line will get, I'd think some kind of change in suspension …. for an extra $8-10k over a base price !! It'll be interesting to see how they price things , spec info, in about 6-8 weeks.

[Decep]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

The size is very close to an 86. Add 650lbs to an 86 and what do you get? The reason the Supra "feels light" (This is what the press is saying) is because of the added power.

So, in my mind, it leans more towards the GT car. However, I will reserve my final judgement until I drive one.

Another reason to stick with the 86 is the aftermarket. It's massive and prices have settled. You can get just about anything for this car now at reasonable prices. That will takes years to happen with the Supra, if ever, depending on sales.

wheelbase is shorter too, that will also make a difference in feel and probably make it feel lighter than it is.

[evoto86]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Not sure why a "canyon car" can't do "highway pulls". Is it too slow to race your buddies on the highway illegally?

I don't know maybe because you don't put 800hp through a canyon car. I don't illegally street race but if I was going to do highway pulls I know which type of car im choosing. Horses for courses.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Decep

wheelbase is shorter too, that will also make a difference in feel and probably make it feel lighter than it is.

Possibly, I'm very curious about it. The car is getting overwhelmingly great responses so far.

[Dake]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FblJGCdMlds"]Here's a much more tolerable video review.[/ame]

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

The size is very close to an 86. Add 650lbs to an 86 and what do you get? The reason the Supra "feels light" (This is what the press is saying) is because of the added power.

So, in my mind, it leans more towards the GT car. However, I will reserve my final judgement until I drive one.

Another reason to stick with the 86 is the aftermarket. It's massive and prices have settled. You can get just about anything for this car now at reasonable prices. That will takes years to happen with the Supra, if ever, depending on sales.

Originally Posted by Decep

wheelbase is shorter too, that will also make a difference in feel and probably make it feel lighter than it is.

Supra is few inches longer and wider than 86. But like you guys said, wheelbase is shorter than 86, so it does make you feel lighter around the steering wheel.

BUT keep in mind, these 2 are completely different category cars. Chief Engineer Tada-san made these 2 cars and made 2 separate mission for each cars. 86 is young lightweight car that nimble through the corner. Over 600 lbs lighter than Supra is a weapon.Supra is mature power house car that have neutral steering through the corner. It's heavier... if you compare to 86.

Supra is sports car more than grand tour car... but Supra's suspension is excellent and can handle of grand touring. While steering makes this car a sports car.

Recommend driving 86 and Supra back to back to back. You'll see HUGE difference between these 2. Not because of weight or power. Character of each cars are totally different.

[alesdrolec]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5dlRhXm39A[/ame]

I liked this review. The info about the steering wheel is interesting because it is less direct than the 86 one but because the shorter wheelbase the feeling is on point. And the fact that it has some driving "modes" so you can drive home from trackday in softer mode etc. I still prefer the 86 thought.

[iLuveKetchup]

I wonder how much more it would cost if they put in DCT instead of the auto. Seems like a missed opportunity, since BMW already has the tech but decided against it.

[steel86gt]

Not sure if this was mentioned here yet but here is another great article where the author drove both the 86 and Supra back-to-back...

https://jalopnik.com/how-the-2020-to...-in-1834736476

"I took the 86 out first and was immediately reminded of two things: how much I like driving it, and how much it’s not screwing around. I have long been a fan of this car and its Subaru twin, but man, is it an acquired taste. Everything is thrashy and rough, from the blaring boxer engine note to the ride quality and, to be sure, the interior."

"The 86 has a hardcore character. Non-drivers need not apply. They wouldn’t like driving it, and they probably wouldn’t like riding in it. The ride’s pretty harsh on back roads. The cupholders were these flimsy removable units between the seats in place of a full arm rest. The rest of the cabin is stark, and the analog gauges are showing their age."

"So the near-total lack of refinement on the 86 means it’s not for everyone, but I don’t see that as a bad thing. I’m glad it exists for that dedicated audience. It has a very old-school sports car spirit—it’s loud, it’s not real fast but it handles well, it emphasizes the stick shift, and above all else it’s just fun to drive. (And, worth noting, fun to drive even on roads in states where extra-legal speeds will send you directly to the slammer and not just traffic ticket court.)

And so is the Supra, of course. But stepping into that is night-and-day, and not just because these two “Toyotas” have markedly different manufacturing origins. The Supra is vastly more comfortable, with better seat bolstering. It has far better materials inside and boasts a much quieter cabin, though the exhaust note will take good care of you later."

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I wonder how much more it would cost if they put in DCT instead of the auto. Seems like a missed opportunity, since BMW already has the tech but decided against it.

Probably a packaging issue, I expect the DCT is a little chunkier than the ZF8-speed. The Zupra is incredibly small even though there's a straight 6 under the hood. I bet like the 86 your feet are up next to the flywheel.

Here's the DCT from an M3 next to the automatic from a Mk4 Supra:

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I wonder how much more it would cost if they put in DCT instead of the auto. Seems like a missed opportunity, since BMW already has the tech but decided against it.

Cost was one of the issue, but also weight was the biggest issue. Toyota really tried to shave every ounce of weight without using expensive Carbon Fiber.

Yes, DCT is great... but ZF 8HP is pretty damn great. When I was at the event, I didn't hear journalist complain to Tada-san about transmission... or maybe they were trying to be nice to him.

In the end, you need to drive it and feel to see if Toyota failed to put DCT trans in there or not.