Build Happening soon.....2jz Swap

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by JK21

Hi guys. Sorry I have been really busy with work and prepping for TX2K. Alright so here is the update. I will upload pictures and sound clips when I get home as I am at work right now.


1) I was going the 2jz route but I switched it up to just buildings and sleeving the motor (Darton Sleeves) and I am going with a custom fabbed kit by my shop JMS Racing. I am going with a PTE 6466 turbo setup. (2200s for the injector size but due to time constraints I will be running 1300s when I go to College station & Houston.) I have a custom fabbed 3" full aluminum exhaust.


2) I am competing in the roll race to see how the car will do ( I was called out by a 700hp Ariel Atom, and a few of my GTR buddies want to run me as well). I am the only FRS in the roll racing and I am looking forward to how the car does and the street runs in Houston will be live.


3) Street testing will commence tomorrow. I will post results and vids here once it is said and done. Will keep posted.

What transmission are you running?

[drifter93]

Originally Posted by JK21

I could do the LS swap but I feel that is overdone and I am staying with the import side. Plus the bay is not nearly as cramped with a 2jz vs. a LS motor. Plus that throws off the weight distribution soooo much. And i still like my turns haha

Guys, i know that's a really old thread, but i feel like it's a good thing to correct the myth/hype about the "2JZ is iron block, it's heavy compared to an aluminium block, so why would i ruin my balance?"

Google is your friend:

The 2JZ weighs around 500lb while the FA20 weighs 379 lb. Each motor was weighed with intake/exhaust manifolds, turbos, dumps, and all accessories except AC.

If you search at supra forums, the 2jz longblock itshelf weighs somewhere around 430lbs, and that's without the intercooler, radiator, two turbos, intake and exhaust manifold, but with the alternator and a lightweight flywheel and clutch.

Actually we are talking for a 50 pound weight difference. Of course you won't be keeping the twin turbo setup, and convert it to a single turbo. A single turbo plus a cast single turbo manifold, and the stock intake manifold already shaves you some pounds and weigh about 50 pounds. Those who are supercharging their fa20 are already adding 30lbs + of additional weight.

About the tranny. Why go with the rare and expensive v160, when there is the tremec t56 magnum? It only gives you 20lbs of more weight compared to the stock tranny and it doesn't make a difference where the weight is added. Also don't forget that those 20lbs could be easily shaved from lightweight rotors, lightweight rims, coilovers and from exhaust.

So in conclusion: 2jz turbo vs fa20 supercharged: 50+50-30= 70lbs of weight difference.

With some nice coilovers (ohlins, kw v3) you can full scale and corner balance your little rocket and that's what makes a real difference. You may as well focus to your left - right, cross weight balance, instead of the front - rear. Front - rear is for marketing purposes. Left to right and cross is what makes the huge impact to the handling.

That's just my opinion and you are welcome to correct me if i'm somewhere wrong.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by drifter93

That's just my opinion and you are welcome to correct me if i'm somewhere wrong.

Don't forget that balance isn't just a measurement of weight. You're significantly raising the COG of the engine when you do this. Nice first post though!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by drifter93

That's just my opinion and you are welcome to correct me if i'm somewhere wrong.

I don’t know if COG is significantly changed because the iron short block is so much of the weight, but it is safe to say that it is higher. Having that inline engine versus the flat engine should add some roll and should load the front suspension more because of that. Finally, even if the motor is pushed to the firewall, there are six cylinders verses two pistons in the longitudinal plane, so there would be a change in front end balance.

With that said, has anybody actually seen or know of anyone who track races or auto-crosses their 2JZ swapped 86? I feel like most of these swaps end up being used for drag racing and used as highway queen grand tourers. It seems like the LS swap is the swap to do to maintain some balance to the car just because I have seen LS swaps here who track their cars regularly.

[DIY]

There is a 2JZ swapped brz that has been racing at wtac for the past few years, I once asked him how heavy the car was amd from memory it was rather heavy.

https://facebook.com/brzerk/

[Irace86.2.0]

This sentiment is shared by the guy who swapped an RB26 drivetrain into a BRZ. Granted, the AWD system is bound to be heavier, and I believe the RB is heavier than the 2JZ too, but the point is he states how lumbering the large engine felt. Hence why he too switched to the K24.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXBIcLFmU0[/ame]

[drifter93]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Don't forget that balance isn't just a measurement of weight. You're significantly raising the COG of the engine when you do this. Nice first post though!

Thanks a lot DarkPira7e! It was research of countless of hours through the forums. Through that research, i found something interesting though. The center of mass/gravity, doesn't change significantly. Because of these reasons:
1) 2JZ has iron block and aluminium head. So comparing it with a full iron longblock, it has a lower COG
2) Due to the fact that the 2jz barely fits to the gt86 for the hood to actually close, the custom mounts are made in that way that when the engine is installed, it sits lower compared to the stock fa20.

If you ask me, i wouldn't make that swap to my gt86/brz. Lot's of money for a very unsure result. Lots of torque and reliability though, but i'm a b-road racer, so i wouldn't mess with these. If i had the cash to do a swap to my gt86, it would probably be a honda swap. K24 block, 90.7mm f22c crankshaft, k20a2 head, 10:1 compression all from 4piston racing. EFR 7163 turbo, and that's a killing machine.

Or..... I would be installing the latest k20c1 crate engine from fk8 type-r and with some bolt-ons and an EFR 7163, i would be looking at 400 safe hp. But it would take some time until someone actually takes the risk to do the swap.

K20C1 EFR7163 + GT86 + Ohlins + Corner Balanced would be a new league on it's own by my guess...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by drifter93

Thanks a lot DarkPira7e! It was research of countless of hours through the forums. Through that research, i found something interesting though. The center of mass/gravity, doesn't change significantly. Because of these reasons:
1) 2JZ has iron block and aluminium head. So comparing it with a full iron longblock, it has a lower COG
2) Due to the fact that the 2jz barely fits to the gt86 for the hood to actually close, the custom mounts are made in that way that when the engine is installed, it sits lower compared to the stock fa20.

The FA20 has a flat/short long block. The original intake manifold was plastic. The heaviest items above the long block is the AC condenser, the alternator and the throttle body.

On the other hand, the 2jz's short block is taller than the flat FA20 long block. Then there is the aluminum heads, the cast iron exhaust manifold and iron hot sides of the turbos, along with the aluminum intake manifold, aluminum cold side of the turbos, throttle body, etc. A single turbo kit could improve weight or add too it. Regardless, the weight is relatively high being mostly inline with the heads.

Here is a pic dump for some visual references. The weight/size of an iron block, an aluminum intake manifold, of two extra cylinders and a turbo system won't be minor or inconsequential. I have a Harrop supercharger kit, which may add an extra 60lbs and raise the COG only a little, yet even with a light weight battery, I can easily/obviously feel that extra weight in the front and can feel the weight transfer in turns. No way the 2JZ won't be a huge difference in feel. There is just no way.

FA20 is so low. The long block is below the headlights


The long block is sitting at the bottom of the fuse box and sits far from the front/lower beam.


Size difference?


Geez that stock 2jz just barely fits. Is it hitting that front beam?


The height is at the top of the fuse box, and is that a cut front beam?


I guess you don't have to cut the front beam. The crank pulley will just hang over it.


These big turbos sit high, no? Kinda above the fuse box.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by drifter93

About the tranny. Why go with the rare and expensive v160, when there is the tremec t56 magnum? It only gives you 20lbs of more weight compared to the stock tranny and it doesn't make a difference where the weight is added. Also don't forget that those 20lbs could be easily shaved from lightweight rotors, lightweight rims, coilovers and from exhaust.
.

86 transmission weights 86 lbs.

T56 weights around 185 lbs. (Source, I got sent a T56 when I had originally purchased a TR6060 for my swap and I had to weight it in order to ship it back).

It's not a bad weight penalty, as it's weight literally under the middle of the car which helps lower the COG, but it's definitely not a 20 lbs penalty, more like 100.

[drifter93]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The FA20 has a flat/short long block. The original intake manifold was plastic. The heaviest items above the long block is the AC condenser, the alternator and the throttle body.

On the other hand, the 2jz's short block is taller than the flat FA20 long block. Then there is the aluminum heads, the cast iron exhaust manifold and iron hot sides of the turbos, along with the aluminum intake manifold, aluminum cold side of the turbos, throttle body, etc. A single turbo kit could improve weight or add too it. Regardless, the weight is relatively high being mostly inline with the heads.

Here is a pic dump for some visual references. The weight/size of an iron block, an aluminum intake manifold, of two extra cylinders and a turbo system won't be minor or inconsequential. I have a Harrop supercharger kit, which may add an extra 60lbs and raise the COG only a little, yet even with a light weight battery, I can easily/obviously feel that extra weight in the front and can feel the weight transfer in turns. No way the 2JZ won't be a huge difference in feel. There is just no way.

FA20 is so low. The long block is below the headlights


The long block is sitting at the bottom of the fuse box and sits far from the front/lower beam.


Size difference?


Geez that stock 2jz just barely fits. Is it hitting that front beam?


The height is at the top of the fuse box, and is that a cut front beam?


I guess you don't have to cut the front beam. The crank pulley will just hang over it.


These big turbos sit high, no? Kinda above the fuse box.

Wow thanks a lot for clarifying it for me, you are the boss! I would rather do a Honda swap in the future, so an iron block is a no-no.

[drifter93]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

86 transmission weights 86 lbs.

T56 weights around 185 lbs. (Source, I got sent a T56 when I had originally purchased a TR6060 for my swap and I had to weight it in order to ship it back).

It's not a bad weight penalty, as it's weight literally under the middle of the car which helps lower the COG, but it's definitely not a 20 lbs penalty, more like 100.

I read somewhere that is somewhere around the 120lbs range, but i'll take your word for granted since you got in the hassle to scale it on your own. Thanks!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

86 transmission weights 86 lbs.

T56 weights around 185 lbs. (Source, I got sent a T56 when I had originally purchased a TR6060 for my swap and I had to weight it in order to ship it back).

It's not a bad weight penalty, as it's weight literally under the middle of the car which helps lower the COG, but it's definitely not a 20 lbs penalty, more like 100.

It would be under the horizontal (transverse) midline of the car, or mostly around crank height and lower, which is good, but definitely in front of the vertical (frontal/coronal) midline, which would put the car more front biased, even further away from the stock 53/47.



Always good to add this link:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It would be under the horizontal (transverse) midline of the car, or mostly around crank height and lower, which is good, but definitely in front of the vertical (frontal/coronal) midline, which would put the car more front biased, even further away from the stock 53/47.

Always good to add this link:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131

That's a good point, but also need to consider that the T56 sits farther back than stock, which neutralizes some of that.

That link is a great read btw, brings back memories when the car still had not been released and one was grasping for any bit of information and we were all blown away by the low COG.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by drifter93

Guys, i know that's a really old thread, but i feel like it's a good thing to correct the myth/hype about the "2JZ is iron block, it's heavy compared to an aluminium block, so why would i ruin my balance?"

Google is your friend:

The 2JZ weighs around 500lb while the FA20 weighs 379 lb. Each motor was weighed with intake/exhaust manifolds, turbos, dumps, and all accessories except AC.

If you search at supra forums, the 2jz longblock itshelf weighs somewhere around 430lbs, and that's without the intercooler, radiator, two turbos, intake and exhaust manifold, but with the alternator and a lightweight flywheel and clutch.

Actually we are talking for a 50 pound weight difference. Of course you won't be keeping the twin turbo setup, and convert it to a single turbo. A single turbo plus a cast single turbo manifold, and the stock intake manifold already shaves you some pounds and weigh about 50 pounds. Those who are supercharging their fa20 are already adding 30lbs + of additional weight.

About the tranny. Why go with the rare and expensive v160, when there is the tremec t56 magnum? It only gives you 20lbs of more weight compared to the stock tranny and it doesn't make a difference where the weight is added. Also don't forget that those 20lbs could be easily shaved from lightweight rotors, lightweight rims, coilovers and from exhaust.

So in conclusion: 2jz turbo vs fa20 supercharged: 50+50-30= 70lbs of weight difference.

With some nice coilovers (ohlins, kw v3) you can full scale and corner balance your little rocket and that's what makes a real difference. You may as well focus to your left - right, cross weight balance, instead of the front - rear. Front - rear is for marketing purposes. Left to right and cross is what makes the huge impact to the handling.

That's just my opinion and you are welcome to correct me if i'm somewhere wrong.

2JZ with V160 is 594lbs fully dressed, FA20 with stock gearbox is 480lbs fully dressed. That's 114lbs.


Plus, with the length of the 2JZ a large portion of the weight is way out in front (the worst place for it to be).


A local shop has a 2JZ swapped formula drift car, next time I'm talking to any of them I'll ask about the weight distribution. They also run a rear rad and lots of other changes so it's not apples to apples, but it'll be real numbers.