949 Racing project car - Blub

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by churchx

Low grip and low rolling resistance tires help vendor up fuel mileage numbers, fit under strict EU emission standards, add playfulness for drift wannabies even with low stock power. Recall even many reviewers on launch in reviews speaking positively on tire choice being well balanced with car/chassis. As majority drive car stock, why should toyobaru ignore all reasons listed above for 1/10 (but possibly less then that) and fit tires and dampers for that way smaller niche of customers? If you are in that niche, nothing keeps you from fitting tires and coilovers that fit your particular use better, but i see no business rationale to change stock shocks with dampening for tires "normal owners/drivers" won't use in all of them by default and compromise handling with stock primacies or make car more expensive. If there is flushness fitment fans, should toyobaru strike out several markets that require for new cars sold to be able to fit snow chains? If there are few hellacamber and insane drop fans, should toyobaru do such changes to default stock suspension too? If some want to fit big wide barrel of wheels, should that also make into 'default'? If some few will rally it, should toybaru lift it by default by few inches? To each his own, and one should understand that manufacturer goal is to make car that would fit most so as to sell bigger numbers. And frankly imho they succeeded, bringing reasonable rwd driving fun for cheap.

I don't agree with this but I don't here. Those other examples are very small, niche markets. For most cars, I would agree with you. For twins, the much higher percentage of consumers doing aftermarket modifications suggests that this should be accounted for in some way. Maybe not with all of the cars but you should be able to get a special edition or "sport package" with a noticeably wider wheel/tire setup and the appropriate dampers installed from the factory. This to me speaks to a much larger buyer demographic for this particular car than those wanting an extra mpg or two at all costs.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

I don't agree with this but I don't here. Those other examples are very small, niche markets. For most cars, I would agree with you. For twins, the much higher percentage of consumers doing aftermarket modifications suggests that this should be accounted for in some way. Maybe not with all of the cars but you should be able to get a special edition or "sport package" with a noticeably wider wheel/tire setup and the appropriate dampers installed from the factory. This to me speaks to a much larger buyer demographic for this particular car than those wanting an extra mpg or two at all costs.

They did with the performance pack and TRD edition later on. Roll stuff out slowly to get people to trade in and upgrade older editions. The dampers were also upgraded in MY15 also, as an in between to the PP dampers. Brand new car will have some room to grow and develop.

But like you said the high percentage going aftermarket do just that, go aftermarket. It's usually cheaper then OEM and better tailored to individual use.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by 949 Racing

Same set it left the factory with.

I'm curious to hear your opinions on how the 2017+ dampers/springs/ARB setup would respond compared to the pre 17 cars suspension setup.
Generally they've been favorable as a cheap upgrade. More compliant and the larger rear ARB really helps tuck in the front end.



It would be great if you guys could try it out and then tune the new Xidas dampers with both taken in to account.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

I'm curious to hear your opinions on how the 2017+ dampers/springs/ARB setup would respond compared to the pre 17 cars suspension setup.
Generally they've been favorable as a cheap upgrade. More compliant and the larger rear ARB really helps tuck in the front end.



It would be great if you guys could try it out and then tune the new Xidas dampers with both taken in to account.

This is actually what I was hoping to hear, as I recently put '18 OEM dampers & springs on my car. Still need to pick up the rear bar too.

[949 Racing]

Originally Posted by Andyxin

Is there any particular reason factory sets the damper curve that way? It surprises me factory shock is that bad with high grip tires and Toyota didn't consider people would put sticker tires on twins.

To make it responsive. The downside it is rides like crap. That is the price paid for seeking that low speed damping force (responsiveness) in a simple, low cost OEM shock. This is precisely why nicer cars have adjustable or semi-active damping. To gain responsiveness when the driver wants or needs it (crash avoidance) while still riding nice on city streets.

Higher quality, more expensive to produce shocks can have lower internal friction which makes them more supple and increases grip. They can have more complex valving and piston design which produces greater speed sensitivity. This is shock shaft speed, not vehicle speed. In rare cases, a linear valved shock will deliver the best combination of grip, responsiveness and ride quality. But for most production based cars either for street, enthusiast or actual race use, a double digressive shock will be the most versatile. In simple terms, this is valving that has some firmness when the driver makes a steering or pedal input, but is soft when the wheel hits a sudden sharp bump. Drivers inputs are "slow", or the low (shaft) speed damping regime. Road surface is "high" (shaft) speed damping range.

The OEM 86 shocks are still firm at high shaft speeds and have a bunch of hysteresis. Hysteresis manifest itself as that "jiggly" feeling the car has over tiny ripples on the road yet still allowing the car to wallow in fast turns.. = cheap OEM shocks.

It's a cost thing. If the original target price of the twins was say, $65k they would have some trick alloy bodied, big piston mono tube dampers or maybe even a driver selectable damping force switch like so many higher end cars have now.

On the plus side, the twins have far more low speed damping than any other car in that price range. That's why they are so fun to huck around even on the stock mouth breather tires.

So yeah, we are really eager to get the Xida protos built and start testing.

[949 Racing]

More updates on the way. We have planned our strategy for 86 Cup Mod class very carefully. Some of the updates would be different if we did not have rules constraints.

APR FRP front bumper
Goal is to provide a teeny bit more front downforce while reducing weight. We have already removing the steel front bumper beam. We chose the APR bumper because it has the cleanest, design which should have the lowest drag. Every other bumper we looked at had big cooling vents, ducts or styling curves and dips that would disrupt airflow. Low drag is key.

Custom Renderos Racing clear polycarbonate duck tail spoiler
While a wing would be more effective, the rules add to many points. The duckbill spoiler OTOH, is far less points and will keep us from bumping to Unlimited. Ours will be roughly 8" tall, the width of the trunk and adjustable through a wide range.

MFactory lower 6th gear
We did a lot of math, using the data we had already collected from Blub and ou Miatas, S2000 background. The goal for lowest lap times is to have gearing to almost run out of gear on the fastest part of the track. The other requirement is keeping the engine as close to peak power as possible everywhere on track. The OEM 6th is really like a 7th gear that skips past 6th, such is the RPM drop. On slow tracks we never hit 6th but at ACS and WSIR, we will need 6th and the thing would fall off the powerband. So a shorter 6th goes in.

Mfactory 4.67 ring & pinion
One easy way to make a stock wider ratio transmission behave like a close ratio trans is to lower the final drive ratio. Being a 2013, our stock 4.1 let the engine fall off the powerband on half the corners on most tracks. Not good for lap times. The tradeoff to the low 6th and lo final drive is it becomes even more sucky on the highway. Jacks Transmissions in CO is doing the transmission. Unitrax in Anaheim, CA is doing the R&P swap. We're sticking with the Torsen, again because of the points we would take for our beloved OS Giken. The FRS Torsen is actually a pretty high bias diff. Feels more like the OEM Torsen in our GT350 than the OEM Torsen in our older Miatas or S2000.

We're swapping the 20mm front sway bar to a 22mm. Still experimenting at this point. We'll see how the balance is once we get the prototype Xidas on.

[ka-titties]

I'm very interested to see this rear spoiler. Thanks for the updates!

[churchx]

949 Racing: imho for low drag but less front lift/more front downforce one should consider also bonnet vents. For temps too.
Regarding gearing .. my own preference would be different FD + close ratio gearset (of longer 1st & 2nd). 6th .. for me car lacks NA power for gears above 5th to be usable anyway. Don't you think close ratio gearset worth adding too? Though maybe it's just me driving more often on slower tracks

[949 Racing]

Originally Posted by churchx

949 Racing: imho for low drag but less front lift/more front downforce one should consider also bonnet vents. For temps too.
Regarding gearing .. my own preference would be different FD + close ratio gearset (of longer 1st & 2nd). 6th .. for me car lacks NA power for gears above 5th to be usable anyway. Don't you think close ratio gearset worth adding too? Though maybe it's just me driving more often on slower tracks

First remember we are tuning for a specific competition with rules. Not constrained by any rules and just tuning for max performance per dollar, Blub's configuration would certainly be different.

https://www.86cup.us/calculator/

While we welcome input and discussion, this is not our first rodeo. We probably do a lot more research, testing while drawing upon a vast library of experience and data than your average HPDE driver does

Some discussions on aerodynamics we have curated: https://www.miataturbo.net/aerodynamics-119/

Our last project car. Vegas generated about 2000lbs of downforce at 150mph

[mixxxx]

Hello! To those interested and want to learn more about 86Cup, which 949 Racing is currently competing in among others, Round 3 and R4 will be on March 30 (Sat) and 31 (Sun) at Buttonwillow Raceway Park 13CW. We have at least 25 cars competing each round and there is room for all skill and car levels. Don't be afraid to ask for ride alongs too

For more information see the links below:
FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/86cup/
FB Event: https://www.facebook.com/events/2119265794829848/
86Cup Rules and Class Calculator: https://www.86cup.us/calculator/

Make sure you regsiter both days with SpeedVentures: http://speedventures.com/events/eventdetail.aspx?id=733
Website: 86cup.us


86Cup 13CW Records:

[949 Racing]

New bits installed this week:

Trans with shorter 6th gear, built by Jacks Transmissions in CO
OEM Torsen with MFactory 4.67 ring & pinion built by Manualgearbox
22mm front sway bar, Whiteline
ACT HD sprung puck clutch & Prolite flywheel combo

Also installing a pre-production 50mm steering wheel spacer. It's billet aluminum and integrates all the OEM electronic connections, preserve airbag connectivity. For many medium and tall drivers, the OEM wheel is too far away. We want to keep the airbag for street use so the solution is a spacer. We have run these spacers in our NA, NB and ND Miatas for quite a while. We will be adding these to the 949Racing.com site in a month or so. Price, final specs TBD.

We are working with Renderos Racing to design a modular bolt in roll bar. When that's done in April we'll install the OMP HTE-R400 seats and Racequip 6pt FIA HNRS compatible belts and Element 50 fire suppression device.

[churchx]

Woah. Any more info on steering wheel spacer? I guess many might be interested in that. For me extra need in such is due body build, that required me to choose on stock seats between touching roof lining if i wore helmet, or have steering wheel too far if i leaned more seat back for more headroom or knees interfering with wheel/hands, when heal-and-toe-ing due seat base adjusted too much to bring steering wheel with too limited adjustment range close enough. I recall asked about such spacers few times on this forum, but still no vendor had made such. I ended up buying J-Luth steering wheel because of that (no spacer, but it's 2cm offset closer to driver).

BTW, if this spacer will turn into actual product, would appreciate if you also would explore any way to space also lights & windshield wiper control stalks closer to driver, to be included in such set. I have relatively long fingers, but still it's a bit less convenient to operate those with just end of fingers and that is just at 2cm offset. Probably will be even more needed with 5cm spacer.

Imho such spacer will be godsend for longer people that track car with mostly stock interior and not willing to mod car too much with bucket seats for extra headroom/airbag-less steering wheel/full roll-cage, to gain steering wheel adjustment closer to driver & thus also extra headroom due ability to reclaim seat back more w/o ergonomic sacrifices.

[Clutch Dog]

I was just asking Verus engineering if they made these..

I had a giacomo wheel spacer for the ND..

Im so glad ya'll are thinking of the big guys.

[RayRay88]

I actually got goosebumps reading about the steering wheel spacer. It's probably my only complaint about the cars seating position for my height/build. Any more specs/prices/pictures or comments about install? Perhaps another thread?