Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[why?]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Thanks for the great history lesson. Makes a lot of sense now.

I raise you this:
I attended a lecture once held by a Professor working in the transport sector and he envisioned the future where cars are no more than 800 kg (1700lb) with very small engines and the safety requirements are augmented by using auto pilot safety intrusions into the vehicle (much the same as what Tesla is doing today but back when he gave the lecture even Tesla I believe did not exist)

A handful of people have put forth such a theory, because they cannot believe the stupidity of the inflation of car prices is going to continue, so they assume somehow that we'll all have multiple cars suited to do different things that will all be much less expensive than they are today somehow.

Part of that theory is manufacturers will decontent cars completely. I mean compared to the 70's the twins are super luxury cars, back then cars didn't have stereos and some came without air conditioning.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Cars have a very long history with more than 130 years of development. A 5-6 year car cannot be very old technologically. There was last year a joint interview of the designers of 86/BRZ and the MX-5 saying that sports cars should not be changed very often. I mean with new revised models. You can guess the reason why manufacturers are focusing nowadays on mobile connectivity or on autonomous driving. There isn't much you can do anymore with the existing technology (engine technology, suspension technology, transmission technology and so on). Even the electric car is a very old idea and it is just pushed now for other reasons. Of course, very few manufacturers will admit this in public. They have to sell!

It wouldn't be a huge change. Just something to keep it more competitive against say a Mazda MX-5.

The Mazda ND MX-5 was released in 2016 and then for 2019 they updated the power to respond to customer demand. This is much the same way Porsche does it when they introduce small increments to keep the cars competitive.

This is what I would like to see with the FT86. It would be nice if they say managed to bump up the power to 230 hp and get rid of the torque dip and lose a bit weight and so on. Just keep on being more competitive.

They did do this to a certain degree for the 2017 model by giving 5 hp more and shorter gears. It's not much but it is something.

[JR]

Trust me, if the twins got more power and the torque dip was removed, people would find something else to complain about. In my opinion, im glad they didn't give the vehicle more power because it would be too darn good and dealerships would be marking it up. Toyota's thinking is, if you want more power, go and get yourself a Supra.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

It wouldn't be a huge change. Just something to keep it more competitive against say a Mazda MX-5.

The Mazda ND MX-5 was released in 2016 and then for 2019 they updated the power to respond to customer demand. This is much the same way Porsche does it when they introduce small increments to keep the cars competitive.

This is what I would like to see with the FT86. It would be nice if they say managed to bump up the power to 230 hp and get rid of the torque dip and lose a bit weight and so on. Just keep on being more competitive.

They did do this to a certain degree for the 2017 model by giving 5 hp more and shorter gears. It's not much but it is something.

The Mazda got a massive 17hp increase. It also got heavier.

Add power and lose weight? Have you not been listening? If they add power weight will creep up. Short of redesigning the car from the ground up each time it would be inevitable. That and we start heading up the price ladder yet again.
Those slight changes in 2017 added 22 pounds to the car.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The Mazda got a massive 17hp increase. It also got heavier.

Add power and lose weight? Have you not been listening? If they add power weight will creep up. Short of redesigning the car from the ground up each time it would be inevitable. That and we start heading up the price ladder yet again.
Those slight changes in 2017 added 22 pounds to the car.

17hp? It gained 26hp and only gained 7lbs. I’d say that’s a significant update given the weight of the car. I suspect the weight gain isn’t a result of added power but features added.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

But why 3000lbs? Why not 1000lbs or 3500lbs? Its still an arbitrary number.



As long as the whole package can handle the mass appropriately for the scenario it was designed for, isn't that all that matters in the end?

Large heavy cars with gigantic tires still feel like large heavy cars even if they mange to pull good skid pad numbers and laptimes. I prefer small light cars. IMO a spec sheet isn’t all there is to the feel of a car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

17hp? It gained 26hp and only gained 7lbs. I’d say that’s a significant update given the weight of the car. I suspect the weight gain isn’t a result of added power but features added.

Ya that was a typo it should say 27. It is early! Still only brings it up to 181.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya that was a typo it should say 27. It is early! Still only brings it up to 181.

So, that is still incredible given the curb weight.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

So, that is still incredible given the curb weight.

Well incredible may be a bit strong. The point of it in the context I was discussing was it did not gain HP and LOSE weight as Renn said he wanted to see.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by ermax

So, that is still incredible given the curb weight.

I agree I would take 27hp plus they increased the redline as well by completely redesigning the internals. We only got 5hp by tweaking the manifold and some gears. 27hp on a 2400lb car is hugely impressive and they barely raised the price and weight. Hats off to Mazda

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by JR

Trust me, if the twins got more power and the torque dip was removed, people would find something else to complain about. In my opinion, im glad they didn't give the vehicle more power because it would be too darn good and dealerships would be marking it up. Toyota's thinking is, if you want more power, go and get yourself a Supra.

So, you'd rather a mediocre car that doesn't sell?

[JR]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

So, you'd rather a mediocre car that doesn't sell?

The car is way above mediocre. Give it a little credit.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

So, you'd rather a mediocre car that doesn't sell?

And it sells just fine. Very close to planned production numbers.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ermax

Large heavy cars with gigantic tires still feel like large heavy cars even if they mange to pull good skid pad numbers and laptimes. I prefer small light cars. IMO a spec sheet isn’t all there is to the feel of a car.

No, I get that at some level, but my point was there is nothing magic about 2,999lbs. That is over twice the weight of an Ariel Atom, so doesn't that make that a "heavy" car?

Unfortunately you can't do a "blind drive test" of a car. It would be very difficult to do an unbiased test of a "light" vs "heavy" car because as soon as a person walks up to it, that judgement is made.