valve spring recall/ additional work performed when engine is out

[FRSToyota86]

Have them check your direct injector seals.

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[Dake]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

Hey guys - interested to get a few perspectives.

I had the recall done, and in the process asked them to replace the TOB and plugs (parts only, no labor charge).

Before I dropped off of the car, evyerthing worked well. I had adjusted the clutch so it's closer to the floor vs. near the top of the clutch travel. Did not notice any clutch slippage nor had any issues with it.

A few days later I go pick up the car, and the clutch engagement was very vague and almost to the very near top of the clutch. I started driving home thinking I'll need to adjust it again when I'm home, but as I'm driving it became clear that it's slipping at any RPM above 3k with more than 50% gas. So I take it back to them, and ask them to check it to see if they might have missed something. A mechanic drove it and agreed with my assessment, and said they'll take a look.

Today they called me back and said I need to replace the clutch. I went there and asked them to adjust the pedal to see if that might help. It did a little as the clutch doesn't slip in 2nd anymore, but it does in 3rd and at highway speeds, so back i went. I ended up negotiating to bring in the parts myself and pay $250 for labor for them to replace everything (clutch, flywheel, fork, etc.).

BTW - side note, parts are significantly cheaper on the Subaru side than the Toyota side, for the same parts. An example: Flywheel for Toyota is SU003-07231. Same part for Subaru is 12310AA403. It's not quite half price, but it's close!

Anyway, my questions are:

1) Could anything related to the work on the recall screw up the clutch in such a way? The dealer obviously says no, and I don't doubt them, but I can't reconcile how the car felt vs. when I got it back, esp where the clutch pedal was.
2) The car has close to 90k miles on it, so replacing the clutch isn't out of the question, but it does seem early relative to my other cars. I usually double clutch so not sure if that wears the clutch more but saves the synchos...? On the other side, it has been on track.
3) Would it have been obvious to the tech that the clutch needs replacement (assuming it needed one when I went in)?

It is what it is at this point, which is that I'm basically gonna get all the parts replaced for ~650 (exedy parts, not Toyota or Subaru, but I understand it's the same), which isn't bad at all but I was not expecting to spend any money on the car since everything was good. But I am curious to see if I could have learned something from the process - I actually thought about having them replace the clutch when the recall was done, but then thought why spend the money when it's not broken?

Anyway, curious to see some thoughts!

It is odd they didn't notice a worn clutch while they did your TOB, but 90k miles is also not totally outrageous. It's odd that it seemingly appeared overnight - but maybe you had gotten used to it, and then taking a few days away from it made it stand out to you.

_______________________

As for me - picked it up today and so far so good. They did seem to drive it a bit - it came back with over 20 additional miles (and the fuel light on). I'm going to look at my camera and see what they were up to (if they weren't clever enough to unplug it).

I got the clutch and TOB replaced too, and I can definitely tell the difference there. I even had them throw the old clutch plate in the trunk since it still had plenty of life on it.

I thought I told them to do my clutch fork too, but it wasn't on the quote and it still squeaks, so I guess I'm stuck with that.

Anyway, here's hoping I didn't make things worse!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

I meant nothing like milling the head. I am questioning the valve train and valve clearances. Some engines you replace shims, some you buy new buckets, etc. I know many cars have this as a service at a specific interval.

When I built my engine in my 240, the factory service manual said to set and then recheck after 1000(iirc) miles.

Hey, Skippy, you asked:

"What is everyone thoughts on shimming the heads/adjusting valve clearance while this is done? It is not part of the repair."

I was just responding, just like you asked.

Happy for you that you have built an engine. I would venture to say, that I was re-building engines and building cars before your Dad was born, so tell me about valve trains -

PS - yes, I've been to Fargo, ND. I spent a week stranded there one weekend. Fargo would be a toss up between there and Yuma, AZ, as a place to give the world an enema.

NOW, just in case you haven't figured this out - ol humfrz is jest ah messen wich ya -





humfrz

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by Dake

It is odd they didn't notice a worn clutch while they did your TOB, but 90k miles is also not totally outrageous. It's odd that it seemingly appeared overnight - but maybe you had gotten used to it, and then taking a few days away from it made it stand out to you.

This could certainly be the case, and since it's been winter in Chicago for a while I haven't been driving aggressively at all since I just use the car to take my daughter to/from school. I only went WOT for a few seconds more to test the engine than the clutch, and that's when I felt it.

If I were 100% sure it was the dealer who screwed up I would have fought them for it, but since I'm not, I tried to be as reasonable as I can. Still, not sure how the clutch engagement point moved by more than an inch if they did not adjust the pedals?

[Kwaziekeller]

I took mine in about a week ago. The valve spring repair is done, but they broke a cam position sensor, so its waiting for that before I get it back. I had them replace the spark plugs, but they tagged on a few hours of labor as well, which I agreed to pay. I asked a few times about the TOB but they seemed to ignore my request. I'll know more in a few weeks once they get the sensor in and want me to pick it up. Mine is an early 13, and it has 85.5k miles. That is all of the preventative maintenance I could think of, especially since I bought a new DD and won't rely on my FR-S as my only transportation.

[swfrs]

ok guys I got my car back from the recall and I did ,tob, serpentine belt and plugs
. the tech told me also the most failure on these engines were the break down of
the sealer for oil pan that cause pick up to get clogged and kill engine. Tech resealed my oil pan also. Thanks every one for there input.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by swfrs

ok guys I got my car back from the recall and I did ,tob, serpentine belt and plugs
. the tech told me also the most failure on these engines were the break down of
the sealer for oil pan that cause pick up to get clogged and kill engine. Tech resealed my oil pan also. Thanks every one for there input.

What was the additional labor cost to do the belt and plugs? Did they also replace the tensioner and belt slipper and what was the additional parts cost?

[PorterParker]

I just had my valve spring recall taken care of earlier this week. I also had them replace spark plugs which I provided with no labor cost. At 70k, my TOB was scary loud so I had them replace that along with a new clutch. Clutch and TOB had a discounted labor cost.

Clutch engagement point seems slightly higher than I remember... not a big difference though.

[maslin]

Paying labor for a clutch, plugs, belts, anything they’re already taking off and putting back on is a rip off. I guess there’s two ways of looking at it. They should do it for no labor. It’s the exact same job putting a new belt on or an old belt. Or they can say sorry, we can only do the recall exactly, come back next week and pay full labor.

They’re taking advantage of people by meeting them in the middle. A few extra dollars for literally zero extra work.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by PorterParker

I just had my valve spring recall taken care of earlier this week. I also had them replace spark plugs which I provided with no labor cost. At 70k, my TOB was scary loud so I had them replace that along with a new clutch. Clutch and TOB had a discounted labor cost.

Clutch engagement point seems slightly higher than I remember... not a big difference though.

Welcome to the forum -

Congratulations on your "upgrades".

I wouldn't worry about the clutch engagement point, as long as it has some free play near the top.


humfrz

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by maslin

Paying labor for a clutch, plugs, belts, anything they’re already taking off and putting back on is a rip off. I guess there’s two ways of looking at it. They should do it for no labor. It’s the exact same job putting a new belt on or an old belt. Or they can say sorry, we can only do the recall exactly, come back next week and pay full labor.

They’re taking advantage of people by meeting them in the middle. A few extra dollars for literally zero extra work.

NOt exactly true. A clutch job would be significantly easier when the engine is out, but removing the flywheel and clutch isn't part of the recall, so incremental cost should be expected. For plugs, and belts I agree with you, but even the plugs are an incremental time spent by the tech, but just about 5min as opposed to something much longer like the clutch replacement.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

NOt exactly true. A clutch job would be significantly easier when the engine is out, but removing the flywheel and clutch isn't part of the recall, so incremental cost should be expected. For plugs, and belts I agree with you, but even the plugs are an incremental time spent by the tech, but just about 5min as opposed to something much longer like the clutch replacement.

Someone posted pictures of his engine torn down for the recall. Clutch and all sitting on a bench. If removing the clutch isn’t done during the standard work I agree there should be a charge.

That’s what I’m trying to get at, if it’s work that’s already being done there should not be a labor charge. If it’s something that you would like to get done while it’s apart, and will be a lot easier with the engine out, obviously agreeing on a decreased labor charge is totally fair to everyone.

Various people have reported new belts or plugs at zero labor, others have payed some labor for the same.


Reading through the instructions now. If you have an automatic you get new front sway bar links. Not replaced with a manual. Looks like the flywheel or flex plate stays on, does not say to remove the clutch. Spark plugs are removed as part of the recall. DI fuel injectors are resealed. Obviously the valve covers and front cover are resealed, front crank seal, high pressure fuel line is replaced.

That’s one long recall. 7 documents, 6 of them are 30 pages, last one was shorter. Whew.

I can see a nominal charge for the clutch and throw out bearing. 0.5 or so.

[Dake]

Those were mine - the pics of the clutch out were because I told them to do it. It's not part of the recall.

[WNDSRFR]

Just got back from Mike Erdman Toyota in Cocoa with the work order. They said they would replace the spark plugs and TOB for free. The service manager also suggested changing the valve seals while he's in there. Also for free. And free loaner.

YEAH