road hazard body damage, what are my better options?

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That damage is not a candidate for paintless dent repair. The paint is too damaged and the metal is creased not dented. The only ways are to replace the whole door as suggested or do a proper repair and paint blend. If keeping the car for years there is also the option of just touching it up and living with it.

Ahh thanks! you saved me the trip to one I located near my area.

but there goes my wishful thinking though

[extrashaky]

I would look for a door to swap onto it. This is how a body shop would find it:

http://www.car-part.com/

I don't know where you are, but I saw three potential donors within an afternoon's drive of where I live for less than $500. You'll want to search using your zip code to see what's near you.

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

you pose a good question. I am asking that question myself. I pay more than 200 USD/month on car insurance. You do have to ask yourself, in the long run is it better not to have insurance at all? and in all cases liability is compulsory. I hate insurance companies.

Most people who hate insurance companies don't understand what they're buying. Insurance isn't an arbiter of "fairness." It's a hedge against financial risk. That's all. You pay it now hoping you won't ever need to use it, but it allows you to drive knowing that your risk is limited (not eliminated) when you do need it.

In your situation it probably makes more sense to fix it yourself and not file a claim. Sometimes that's what happens. The insurance company isn't to blame for that. The hedge will still be there when you total your car and do actually need it.

As for compulsory liability, anybody who complains about that is a fool. The alternative is litigation on practically every accident that happens. Not only would attorney's fees for suing or defending yourself be a lot more expensive than insurance, your taxes would also go up as well to pay for the additional government bureaucracy and court system to handle all the extra litigation. We've already been there, and that's why we have compulsory liability insurance in the first place.

I have several dings on my BRZ. I haven't filed a claim for any of them, because they would be below my deductible. I just keep driving with them. Eventually this car will need a repaint anyway, so I'll just have them all smoothed out at once. They don't prompt me to boohoo about wasting my insurance premiums every six months, because I understand from the outset that that's not why I pay for comprehensive coverage on the car.

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

I hope you're right about me not losing much in resale value. That would be nice.

Not only are our cars holding their value pretty well, they're also uncommon enough that someone who wants one will not pass up a chance to buy one over a few minor repairs. Diminished value is an issue when you have a vehicle with a rebuilt title that was totaled and rehabbed, or when you have a vehicle that sold for $70K new. After a few years our cars are in a value range where there's no point haggling over a door ding. A buyer isn't going to walk away over that.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I would look for a door to swap onto it. This is how a body shop would find it:

http://www.car-part.com/

I don't know where you are, but I saw three potential donors within an afternoon's drive of where I live for less than $500. You'll want to search using your zip code to see what's near you.



Most people who hate insurance companies don't understand what they're buying. Insurance isn't an arbiter of "fairness." It's a hedge against financial risk. That's all. You pay it now hoping you won't ever need to use it, but it allows you to drive knowing that your risk is limited (not eliminated) when you do need it.

In your situation it probably makes more sense to fix it yourself and not file a claim. Sometimes that's what happens. The insurance company isn't to blame for that. The hedge will still be there when you total your car and do actually need it.

As for compulsory liability, anybody who complains about that is a fool. The alternative is litigation on practically every accident that happens. Not only would attorney's fees for suing or defending yourself be a lot more expensive than insurance, your taxes would also go up as well to pay for the additional government bureaucracy and court system to handle all the extra litigation. We've already been there, and that's why we have compulsory liability insurance in the first place.

I have several dings on my BRZ. I haven't filed a claim for any of them, because they would be below my deductible. I just keep driving with them. Eventually this car will need a repaint anyway, so I'll just have them all smoothed out at once. They don't prompt me to boohoo about wasting my insurance premiums every six months, because I understand from the outset that that's not why I pay for comprehensive coverage on the car.



Not only are our cars holding their value pretty well, they're also uncommon enough that someone who wants one will not pass up a chance to buy one over a few minor repairs. Diminished value is an issue when you have a vehicle with a rebuilt title that was totaled and rehabbed, or when you have a vehicle that sold for $70K new. After a few years our cars are in a value range where there's no point haggling over a door ding. A buyer isn't going to walk away over that.

The thing about insurance is that I have my doubts about them really being a safety net as opposed to being an all out profit organization that tries to make as much money as they possibly can get away with. I have no numbers to back up my doubts and I'm not about to go dig them up.

I totally understand what you're saying about the insurance being a safety net in case something really bad happens but but my question is does it really have to be that high? and am I happy to pay at least 150 $/month for only liability insurance? Anyway, this is going way off topic, next thing to discuss will be the health insurance problem.

Back to the cars, I like what you're saying about our cars being rare and hopefully will hold their values. Mine is low mileage (still I think it's at 7k miles right now and I've had it for over a year) and bone stock. Not that I bought it to keep its value, I bought it to have as much fun as possible on a street car and I am getting my money's worth. It just sucks to lose money this way. Besides, I really love this car and don't want any damage what soever to come to it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

The thing about insurance is that I have my doubts about them really being a safety net as opposed to being an all out profit organization that tries to make as much money as they possibly can get away with. I have no numbers to back up my doubts and I'm not about to go dig them up.
.
.

But that is just it they are a business so they want to make all the profit they can just like any other business. Should their business plan be to just break even? People say the same things about car dealership and seem to think that for some reason they should just give everything away. I don't know where you work but I know that everyplace I ever have all wanted to make as much profit as possible.

[e30kawi]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Ahh thanks! you saved me the trip to one I located near my area.

but there goes my wishful thinking though

I wouldn't rule out the paintless dent repair. Couldn't hurt to look into it. I watched some videos of the guy that repaired mine. He takes out some gnarly dents around body lines and creases.

But you do what you think is right for situation. Getting a professionals take on it couldn't hurt.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But that is just it they are a business so they want to make all the profit they can just like any other business. Should their business plan be to just break even? People say the same things about car dealership and seem to think that for some reason they should just give everything away. I don't know where you work but I know that everyplace I ever have all wanted to make as much profit as possible.

yeah true, it's just that I have a feeling the numbers are higher than they need be. I mean I believe it was tirerack that gave free road hazard insurance on any tires you purchase from them. So they make their profit off selling the tires and don't need to resort to making money off natural hazards.

This is a philosophical topic and it will go way off topic but for me personally (and I might as well be wrong about this) I feel it is wrong to profit from other people's misfortune. Car accidents are a misfortune and it should be seen as an opportunity to make money. Same goes for medicine. There is something morally wrong to try and turn a fat profit from a human dying from a disease and has no other option but to pay up the asking price. Buying a car from a dealer or a phone from an electronics shop is a different matter. You buy it by choice and not necessarily need. But anyway, this is a very long topic...

I did a rough estimate for the cost of my car's ownership for say around 8 years not including gas or car insurance. It rounds up to around 200$/month. This is a rough estimate and I might be off by say 100$/month but it does generally give an idea of how expensive insurance can be relative to a car's worth. Maybe I should get a more expensive car to offset this lose.

[ToySub1946]

1. Suggest you move to a place where they don't have snow/salt.


2. You only must look at the right side of your car when you're washing it. So don't go there any other time.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

yeah true, it's just that I have a feeling the numbers are higher than they need be. I mean I believe it was tirerack that gave free road hazard insurance on any tires you purchase from them. So they make their profit off selling the tires and don't need to resort to making money off natural hazards.

This is a philosophical topic and it will go way off topic but for me personally (and I might as well be wrong about this) I feel it is wrong to profit from other people's misfortune. Car accidents are a misfortune and it should be seen as an opportunity to make money. Same goes for medicine. There is something morally wrong to try and turn a fat profit from a human dying from a disease and has no other option but to pay up the asking price. Buying a car from a dealer or a phone from an electronics shop is a different matter. You buy it by choice and not necessarily need. But anyway, this is a very long topic...

I did a rough estimate for the cost of my car's ownership for say around 8 years not including gas or car insurance. It rounds up to around 200$/month. This is a rough estimate and I might be off by say 100$/month but it does generally give an idea of how expensive insurance can be relative to a car's worth. Maybe I should get a more expensive car to offset this lose.

I have paid over 1/2 a million in insurance over the decades. I have made one claim for $2000. Yes it is expensive but it is a lot cheaper than if you are in an accident and have to replace your car. God help if you hurt or kill somebody since that $500,000 over 40 years all of a sudden looks like a great investment.
The Tire racks sells tires. The insurance company sells insurance. There is no comparing the two.
It is an economics and capitalism topic. There is nothing philosophical about business. Insurances costs so much because they have to pay out and still make a profit. The more profit the better. Look at it at a closer personal level. Would you walk up to your employer and say "I only need $50 a day to get by so that is all you need to pay me"? No, you want to turn a profit on your labour just as they do.
Know this reads like I am lecturing but my point is simply there is no sense getting upset at insurance companies. They are just a business like any other. The good news is that as you get older your insurance goes down!

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

The thing about insurance is that I have my doubts about them really being a safety net as opposed to being an all out profit organization that tries to make as much money as they possibly can get away with.

That's a false dichotomy. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Businesses are not started to not make money. If you take the profit out of it, there's no incentive for anybody to provide private commercial auto insurance, and nobody will. So you're basically either arguing against having insurance at all, or you want the government to provide it for you.

The profit motive is also an incentive to cut costs. Government doesn't have that incentive. As a result, government insurance would cost more to provide than private insurance. Therefore, either you would pay higher premiums than you pay now for private insurance, or you would pay more in taxes to subsidize the government insurance.

Any way you try to get rid of private insurance, you pay more. Instead, we have a for-profit system that also works well to provide a hedge against financial loss. Hence the falseness of your dichotomy. It doesn't always work perfectly or come out "fair," but it's better than the alternative. Insurance companies are neither good nor evil. They just provide a service in exchange for consideration.

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

I totally understand what you're saying about the insurance being a safety net in case something really bad happens but but my question is does it really have to be that high?

Yes. Because if it didn't have to be that high, profit-minded people would realize it, and they would come into the market and provide insurance for less than what you're paying to undercut your insurer and force them to reduce their prices as well or leave the market. That's how competition works in free markets.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody's forcing you. That's the freedom buyers have in a free market. Even "compulsory" liability insurance is optional deep down. Nobody forces you to drive. Ride a bike. Walk. Take the bus. In fact, nobody's really forcing you to carry compulsory insurance even if you do drive. Just don't buy it and drive without registration.

Go ahead. Accept the risk.

Or learn why and how insurance works and stop complaining.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

That's a false dichotomy. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Businesses are not started to not make money. If you take the profit out of it, there's no incentive for anybody to provide private commercial auto insurance, and nobody will. So you're basically either arguing against having insurance at all, or you want the government to provide it for you.

The profit motive is also an incentive to cut costs. Government doesn't have that incentive. As a result, government insurance would cost more to provide than private insurance. Therefore, either you would pay higher premiums than you pay now for private insurance, or you would pay more in taxes to subsidize the government insurance.

Any way you try to get rid of private insurance, you pay more. Instead, we have a for-profit system that also works well to provide a hedge against financial loss. Hence the falseness of your dichotomy. It doesn't always work perfectly or come out "fair," but it's better than the alternative. Insurance companies are neither good nor evil. They just provide a service in exchange for consideration.



Yes. Because if it didn't have to be that high, profit-minded people would realize it, and they would come into the market and provide insurance for less than what you're paying to undercut your insurer and force them to reduce their prices as well or leave the market. That's how competition works in free markets.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody's forcing you. That's the freedom buyers have in a free market. Even "compulsory" liability insurance is optional deep down. Nobody forces you to drive. Ride a bike. Walk. Take the bus. In fact, nobody's really forcing you to carry compulsory insurance even if you do drive. Just don't buy it and drive without registration.

Go ahead. Accept the risk.

Or learn why and how insurance works and stop complaining.

You seem to be very worked up about this topic and furthermore very stern set in what you believe.

I'll drop it all together, I'm really not here to debate a system I believe to be very broken and I'm sure this will drag on for a very long time to very little benefit.

back to the main topic and thanks for your post.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by e30kawi

I wouldn't rule out the paintless dent repair. Couldn't hurt to look into it. I watched some videos of the guy that repaired mine. He takes out some gnarly dents around body lines and creases.

But you do what you think is right for situation. Getting a professionals take on it couldn't hurt.

Maybe I'll stop by just out of sheer curiosity

prior to this thread I never heard of this paintless dent repair. Learn something new every day.

[e30kawi]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Maybe I'll stop by just out of sheer curiosity

prior to this thread I never heard of this paintless dent repair. Learn something new every day.

To me it would be worth it. They'll look at it for free. The pictures aren't too clear on my phone so hard to gauge the degree of damage to the paint.

The guy that repaired mine pulled the bumper and tail light out and basically hammered and dolly'd it with all kinds of lights and heat gun. Had a ton of tools etc. He came to me both times. Was really convenient. And he buffed everything.

Look at it long term, if it is around the same cost as your deductible, might be worth while you not claim it on your insurance due to increased premiums for years to come. Would also keep the numbers the same, as opposed to changing the door.

[joro2]

I had a similar situation, ran over a tree branch which kicked back up and grazed the bottom right rear quarter panel.
The impact resulted in a few scratches deeper into the paint than could be buffed out. The dilemma became to leave it as is or repair it. I decided to leave it as is.
I’d like everything to stay perfect but bought the car to drive it and accept that over time sh*t happens. Embrace the scratches & minor dents