2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I know. I'm joking. The 86 would never be luxurious.

The 86 is luxury compared to what I was previously driving.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by squall leonhart

My opinion doesn't much matter, as I had to wait 5 years from release to be able to feel reasonably good about the cost of an FR-S, so I am decidedly not the target income demographic.

Lol none of our opinions matter much for the Supra. We fall into the 'will buy an 86' demographic. I think Toyota is looking for new (different) customers on this one, and hopefully that means they will be looking for return customers using something else more to our liking.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Borchert97

Lol I think you missed the joke, I said they're trying to be like Lexus or BMW with the Supra, because it has a luxury car feel to it. I was making a mockery of their ownership of Lexus and the use of a BMW engine in the car, but I guess that was too complicated for you.

I never said the Supra would feel like an 86 because it's an 86, I said it'll feel like an 86 because I genuinely cannot see a more balanced chassis than our's being built for that price. The 86 shames some supercars, let alone a run-of-the-mill $50k sports car. It's probably the biggest strength of our platform.

Oof, maybe the joke was too complicated for me, but your posts have devolved into something near incomprehensible and have become a mismatch of random opinions and pseudo facts of what you think car culture is, and how you think the Automotive industry is run. Many people have tried to clear this up for you, some nice, some not so nice.

So if you could just excuse my inability to read your posts, they've become quite difficult!

Also, I think you're forgetting about the Mx5 when it comes to chassis talk.

[R_E_L]

I like the looks and principles behind the design of the car, smooth torquey engine, nimble handling and compact size vs the A80 (a bigger GT car). I am disappointed in the 3400lb weight and lack of manual transmission. But then again it is out of my financial reach and probably will remain that way even after I pay off my BRZ, so who cares what I think.

I hope it is successful and encourages Toyota to bring back the MR2 or a successor to our cars.

[vh_supra26]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__tipCX1Tuk[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-BXpnAM0PQ[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vOnhS9EzM[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHxS2ZXqCA[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKegnyuMgV0[/ame]

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Lol none of our opinions matter much for the Supra. We fall into the 'will buy an 86' demographic. I think Toyota is looking for new (different) customers on this one, and hopefully that means they will be looking for return customers using something else more to our liking.

Yes, this. Perhaps they are looking at the people who are buying MKIV Supras, who are spending $30-100k for NA-TT, high-low mileage Supras that are 25-20 years old. Those buyers might want a new Supra.

I think we will see a 2.4l 86 in 2020-2021.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Yes, this. Perhaps they are looking at the people who are buying MKIV Supras, who are spending $30-100k for NA-TT, high-low mileage Supras that are 25-20 years old. Those buyers might want a new Supra.

I think we will see a 2.4l 86 in 2020-2021.

This is the hope. This is the only thing I care about out of Toyota.

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Yes, this. Perhaps they are looking at the people who are buying MKIV Supras, who are spending $30-100k for NA-TT, high-low mileage Supras that are 25-20 years old. Those buyers might want a new Supra.



I think we will see a 2.4l 86 in 2020-2021.

I'm curious as to why you think we will see such a thing.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I think we will see a 2.4l 86 in 2020-2021.

If there is only one engine worldwide I doubt it due to taxes in other countries for larger displacements.

And you really want a lower redline?? Remember the Subaru engineer saying on the promo video that not surpassing 7000rpm is not a sports car engine? lmao!

I bet one of the clauses BMW wanted in this project is to have the Toyota variant not superior spec-wise than the Z4. Hence the Toyota marketing punch line "it's not all about power" farce.

[Borchert97]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

I'm curious as to why you think we will see such a thing.

Because 2019 Subaru Ascent, that's why.

The same engine is also theorized to be due for the 2020 STI, or perhaps the 2020 WRX, with the STI receiving an even bigger engine.

[gymratter]

i think both Toyota and BMW are underrating the specs.

today BMW said the US Z4 actually does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/a...the-new-bmw-z4

Please note that the new BMW Z4 M40i press information and specifications have been updated with the official 0-60 mph acceleration time (3.9 seconds), curb weight (3,443 lbs.) and gross vehicle weight (4,092 lbs.).

[Borchert97]

Originally Posted by gymratter

i think both Toyota and BMW are underrating the specs.

today BMW said the US Z4 actually does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/a...the-new-bmw-z4

This article https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/...z4-comparison/

along with the one you shared shows that the Z4 also has more power, quite a bit more power, 382hp vs. the Supra's 335hp. This partnership is vastly different than Toyota's partnership with Subaru, that one feels much more streamlined, much more friendly, the partnership with BMW almost feels toxic, like the two brands are trying to get 1-up on each other. But I don't get why the Toyota version makes less when it's the same engine, and why Toyota would even allow this to happen. My entire argument today about why the Supra will most likely be a flop is because the power figure doesn't match it's price point, if it had 382hp I'd be singing a much different song. If it's a tune restriction then sure, most people who buy the car will tune it out and get to that 382hp number pretty quick, but I have a feeling there's much more to it than that, a tune doesn't magically lose 47hp, but I guess this is a turbocharged engine we're talking about, is it possible the boost is turned up more on the Z4, or is there a component that's different in the engine?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Borchert97

This article https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/...z4-comparison/

along with the one you shared shows that the Z4 also has more power, quite a bit more power, 382hp vs. the Supra's 335hp. This partnership is vastly different than Toyota's partnership with Subaru, that one feels much more streamlined, much more friendly, the partnership with BMW almost feels toxic, like the two brands are trying to get 1-up on each other. But I don't get why the Toyota version makes less when it's the same engine, and why Toyota would even allow this to happen. My entire argument today about why the Supra will most likely be a flop is because the power figure doesn't match it's price point, if it had 382hp I'd be singing a much different song. If it's a tune restriction then sure, most people who buy the car will tune it out and get to that 382hp number pretty quick, but I have a feeling there's much more to it than that, a tune doesn't magically lose 47hp, but I guess this is a turbocharged engine we're talking about, is it possible the boost is turned up more on the Z4, or is there a component that's different in the engine?

You do realize the turbo 4 cylinder Z4 starts at $50k, right? The version with the turbo 6 cylinder will start at $65k. Are you saying it isn't fair that the BMW gets 50 more horsepower for only $15k more than what the Supra costs?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ster-30i-m40i/

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/z4/r...-your-own.html

The wiki post explains the different engine outputs. Probably mostly a tuning thing having to do with different weighted/priced vehicles, or sized turbos, or emissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58

It is probably more in the tuning. For example, the 2016 Audi 3.0 Q5 uses a 3.0L V6 with a TVS1320 supercharger making 268hp/295tq; the 2016 Audi SQ5 uses the same engine and the same supercharger, but it makes 349hp/346tq. There are minor differences to the motor like better cooling because of the extra power, but the engines are identical. They get the different numbers from tuning. Not a different compression ratio, different pulley, a bigger blower, nada. Just tuning. BMW probably does the same thing, or there are slight differences like how the Honda Accord 2.0T uses the Civic Type R engine with a smaller turbo for more low end power, and some other small differences.

[Borchert97]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You do realize the turbo 4 cylinder Z4 starts at $50k, right? The version with the turbo 6 cylinder will start at $65k. Are you saying it isn't fair that the BMW gets 50 more horsepower for only $15k more than what the Supra costs?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ster-30i-m40i/

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/z4/r...-your-own.html

The wiki post explains the different engine outputs. Probably mostly a tuning thing having to do with different weighted/priced vehicles, or sized turbos, or emissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58

It is probably more in the tuning. For example, the 2016 Audi 3.0 Q5 uses a 3.0L V6 with a TVS1320 supercharger making 268hp/295tq; the 2016 Audi SQ5 uses the same engine and the same supercharger, but it makes 349hp/346tq. There are minor differences to the motor like better cooling because of the extra power, but the engines are identical. They get the different numbers from tuning. Not a different compression ratio, different pulley, a bigger blower, nada. Just tuning. BMW probably does the same thing, or there are slight differences like how the Honda Accord 2.0T uses the Civic Type R engine with a smaller turbo for more low end power, and some other small differences.

Yes... I knew all these things, it wasn’t hard to figure out, it was in the same link I posted. Not rocket science by any means. I don’t think you understand my argument. I don’t give a crap about the BMW’s pricing. My entire argument is the Supra doesn’t make the power it should given its price point, if the same engine is capable of another 47hp that easily, it should be given that 47hp, regardless of what the starting price is of the Z4 I6. I don’t care about that. It’s BMW, it’s going to be overpriced. Nobody is debating that. The debate is why is the Supra lacking power when it’s priced like it should be a 400hp car? If it had the Z4’s power, a lot less people would be complaining. I’m not comparing the Z4 so I honestly don’t understand what possessed you to mention it’s price. That’s irrelevant. The Supra is a $50k car. So is the Corvette and the GT350. My argument all day has been that the Supra needs more power, so if the Z4 is capable of that power with no major engine component changes, why doesn’t the Supra come with the same power, regardless of anything to do with the Z4’s pricing.