200hp / 2700lbs - Really?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by enc0re

I'm so happy Toyota went to the club4ag forums for their initial development input. Those guys set the basics right: 1.6-2.0l NA, lightweight, RWD, low ownership cost.

Otherwise we probably would have ended up with a 370Z or WRX competitor.

pretty sure they had that set before they even consulted club4ag. i saw the original club 4ag thread and the asked for more emotional perspectives on what separates a cult classic from an ordinary car.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

Why? The Scion Tc already exists....

I HATED the last iteration of the Celica because it was an underpowered high school girl car...... The Supra was definitely a mans vehicle..... In this situation it feels like Toyota confused as to what to do. Is making a lightweight FI car that costs less than 30K really asking too much?

Overcompensating much?

Originally Posted by blur

Okay, you guys said one thing that bothered me, and that was that this car has no direct competition. I see the gen coupe as competition. That's considering that at 24K you can get brembo brakes, LSD, 6 speed, and turbo.

In terms of sales competition, the FT-86 has lots. In terms of what it is, it's virtually alone in the market. The MX-5 comes closest, but it's a convertible 2 seater. The genesis is next, but it's a lard ass.

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I don't see the big deal with HP cause the way I see it its more about how the car drives, feels and puts down that power that I care about.

Bingo. That's what we are here for. I can't believe this guy wan't to compare the FT to a Sonata.

Hmm, must get my hands on a Camry SE V6. Yeah, that's what i was hoping for [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Noobs... Too many of you are expecting Z car performance for a Corolla price. It's not going to happen.

From a real tuner's point of view, you can always add power. It's reasonably easy. You can't easily 'add' a good chassis, un-fuck bad suspension design (no offense AE86 guys with your solid axles... ), and cutting weight is a freakin' nightmare if you still want your car to look decent.

Didn't you hear? everyone on this forum is cheap.

As for "un-fucking" a poor suspension design, fucking tell me about it.. some of the shit.... wait, no. Another thread, another day.

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

Sure, if youre lapping the local track....with vehicles in your range.....I guess that'll be fun. You and the miatas will tear it up! For me personally.....I like having straight line power. It's exhilarating. If, taking a hard turn at a yellow light gets you off....so be it. I like punching it heading onto on on ramp personally.

Enjoying your car and racing your car are two substantially different pursuits. Sometimes one can be the subset of another, but they are not the same thing. I for one think it'd be nice to have a car with simpleness and purity that one can take down a canyon road and not have the $60k (and way up) "I fucked up" replacement fee in the back of your head.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Handling. Cayman is one of the greatest handling cars of the modern era.

You want straight line performance? Buy your Mustang GT. Buy your turbo Genesis.

Again, why are you even here? This car is the spiritual successor to a car that came out with 112 hp.

Genesis seems more up your alley. Flashy, cheap, can be made fast in a straight line, probably handles better than you'll ever need. Hell Hyundai doesn't even suck anymore. Icing on the cake is the turbo motor was co-developed with the Evo's. Have at it.

Originally Posted by Calais

p.s. a GT2 RS would rape a GTR on track

If the driver is worth his salt, yeah, def. Understatement in fact. That being siad, the RS is more likely to turn around, bite you by the scruff of you neck, and throw you through a rail.



Backward.

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by cyde01

pretty sure they had that set before they even consulted club4ag. i saw the original club 4ag thread and the asked for more emotional perspectives on what separates a cult classic from an ordinary car.

True. But if club4ag had come back with POWER!!! as their definition for a cult classic, I'm reasonably sure Toyota would have listened.

In other words, I'm glad they didn't ask on this board. Not that it existed back then.

[aliphian]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

Youre the one driving a early 90s car......and I'm cheap? I paid cash for my car.........and could have done the same for a GTR.

You have a lot of money so I guess you win the argument. And you TOTALLY don't come off as a gigantic douche either.

[Allch Chcar]

Ichitaka, I don't know boxers but there is a "stock" block S2000 used in youtube videos that makes 600WHP . I believe it uses E85 though so it doesn't apply to gasoline. Although I'm pretty sure there are guys on stock blocks with 400WHP running gasoline but I don't care about piddly stuff like that.

STIs make 300BHP stock so there's no point to really debate whether a boxer can make power. Get a better fuel and the boxer would be capable of much more than 300WHP.

The Honda, Evo, Subaru forums probably have some pretty high WHP cars on E85 if any of you are interested in some real 4 bangin' HP. The Hondatec and NASIOC have thread full of E85 builds.

But this discussion never happened here, got it ?

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by cyde01

pretty sure they had that set before they even consulted club4ag. i saw the original club 4ag thread and the asked for more emotional perspectives on what separates a cult classic from an ordinary car.

Haha, I remember that thread, and it brings me great joy being reminded that Toyota did that.

All I said in it was "light weight, light weight, light weight, and a free high-revving engine that sparks the feeling of the 4a-ge", something to that degree.

Pretty sure that was me and basically everyone else on those forums saying that

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Ichitaka, I don't know boxers but there is a "stock" block S2000 used in youtube videos that makes 600WHP . I believe it uses E85 though so it doesn't apply to gasoline. Although I'm pretty sure there are guys on stock blocks with 400WHP running gasoline but I don't care about piddly stuff like that.

STIs make 300BHP stock so there's no point to really debate whether a boxer can make power. Get a better fuel and the boxer would be capable of much more than 300WHP.

The Honda, Evo, Subaru forums probably have some pretty high WHP cars on E85 if any of you are interested in some real 4 bangin' HP. The Hondatec and NASIOC have thread full of E85 builds.

But this discussion never happened here, got it ?

Yes, I have see thread bout NA 2.5RS engine boosted blah blah blah. I've seen it, read it, saw it, driven it before... but in the end, if they boost more than 6~7psi that stock NA engine will always blown. As for FB engine, we don't have enough spec and tuning to say bout FB engine yet to say this engine can handle certain beating than older EJ engines.

As for E85 and etc I didn't state any of that. I have only stated Subaru prefer you to use 88~91 octanes (back in old days) so I have no clue what are you talking bout

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Noobs... Too many of you are expecting Z car performance for a Corolla price. It's not going to happen.

From a real tuner's point of view, you can always add power. It's reasonably easy. You can't easily 'add' a good chassis, un-fuck bad suspension design (no offense AE86 guys with your solid axles... ), and cutting weight is a freakin' nightmare if you still want your car to look decent.

Start with the basics. Light, rigid chassis, good suspension geometry. Passable amount of power. If I get too bored after a while of being only averagely fast in a straight line, I don't need Toyota or Subaru to help me there.

And there are probably shops in your area that can help you too, if your ego gets too badly hurt when you're trying to race turbo Sonatas. Geez...

I leave for a couple of weeks and we get infested by people who obviously are drawn to the exterior design but have not been following the development of this car. They want to turn the lightweight affordable rwd coupe into a 370Z for 2/3rds the price. Let me clear this up for you:

Waves hand slowly---"NOOBS this is not the car you are looking for"

If you have been waiting decades for a miata/s2000 coupe with back seats then you are in the right place. All others feel free to GTFO because you are going to be sorely disappointed by the FT-86.

We don't need multiple posts in every thread complainig about the perceived lack of power. We get it, you want a more powerful version. If you have the money build it yourself.

Toyobaru is going to provide us with a great lightweight affordable rwd excellent handling platform from the factory. What you do with it from there is up to you.

[Archer256]

To go off that, this is suppose to get people not only into the toyota brand but also a starter for performance/sport cars in general. I think 200hp is gunnar need to be standard as a result

[serialk11r]

Wait so I don't have personal experience with performance oriented cars (or cars in general for that matter), but I see people saying oh it needs 200hp, but a Miata has less than 170hp from a 2.0L (so lower power to weight than a 195hp, say 2800lb FT86), max torque at a lofty 5000rpm, and it starts at a much higher 27k. And you see those things everywhere...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Ichitaka, I don't know boxers but there is a "stock" block S2000 used in youtube videos that makes 600WHP . I believe it uses E85 though so it doesn't apply to gasoline. Although I'm pretty sure there are guys on stock blocks with 400WHP running gasoline but I don't care about piddly stuff like that.

STIs make 300BHP stock so there's no point to really debate whether a boxer can make power. Get a better fuel and the boxer would be capable of much more than 300WHP.

The Honda, Evo, Subaru forums probably have some pretty high WHP cars on E85 if any of you are interested in some real 4 bangin' HP. The Hondatec and NASIOC have thread full of E85 builds.

But this discussion never happened here, got it ?

As far as I know, there is a difference between the NA's block and the STI's. NA's is open deck and STI's is semi-closed deck. Too much boost probably distorts the NA's cylinders.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

As far as I know, there is a difference between the NA's block and the STI's. NA's is open deck and STI's is semi-closed deck. Too much boost probably distorts the NA's cylinders.

Ichitaka would know more about that. The newer FB should be closed deck IMHO but I wouldn't know if it does or not. It'd be a shame for them to make shortcuts on the engine :\.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Ichitaka would know more about that. The newer FB should be closed deck IMHO but I wouldn't know if it does or not. It'd be a shame for them to make shortcuts on the engine :\.

I absolutely agree, but manufacturers usually don't. I can't remember why, though... Cooling or manufacturing cost, maybe? To me closed deck = boost friendly. Dry deck would be even better.

In this thread http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...p?t=764&page=2
There is this line: "Cooling has been optimized by using separate engine cooling circuitry for the block and head"

Could be dry deck??? (I'm still looking for pics...)

[LexusFman]

IMHO the FT86 should be offered with a cheapo economy eingine like the 2zrfe in addition to the FB20 boxer. Make it say 18K.