I think some people need a reality check...

[fistpoint]

I totally disagree with your assessment. You're basically saying anything and everything under $25k is pure garbage, and that $25k itself is bargain basement quality? That is patently absurd. Squeaks and rattles because it's a $25k car? Again, absurd.

[YukiHachiRoku]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

In response to a few replies to my initial posting...

I've owned Porches past.

Did you stain that porche too? Was it in the front or backyard?...

stopped readying your 2nd reply here....

[imravenit]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

But price IS the issue. Toyota makes higher priced vehicles and has the whole Lexus line of 'high quality' cars.
Do you think they spend the same amount of R&D on Scion as they do Lexus?
Do you think they use the same quality of materials (specifically interior parts) on Scion as they do Lexus?
Do you think they use the same amount of sound insulation, vibration cancelling methods and padding/cushioning on Scion as they do Lexus?
The answer to all three is: No, they do not.
However, the A/C will blow just as cold in a Scion as it does in a Lexus. Air bags surround you and make you as safe in a Scion as a Lexus. The warranties between Scion and Lexus are not proportionate to their respective prices.
When you buy a Lexus, you are paying extra for the illusion of a better quality riding experience. It's quieter, smoother, and the dealership will kiss your ass until it blisters.
But the cars are built pretty much the same. A Lexus ES is just a little bit better than a Toyota Camry, but they're pretty much the same car but the ES *might* use better quality interior parts. The drivetrains are the same. The price however, is very different. They do have that prestigious 'Lexus' badging though...

Toyota could have built the FR-S to Lexus "quality standards" and it would be maybe slightly faster, definitely quieter, and the buying experience would have been very different. But would you pay an extra $20,000 for a Lexus FR-S?
I don't think many people would because this car is marketed to younger drivers (unlike myself) and they want you to buy a Toyota product over a Mustang, Camaro or other sporty marque/brand. They know you guys want a sporty affordable car that runs and handles well, looks cool, and can be modded. Most older drivers will be looking at cars that the seats are cushy because they have hemorrhoids, a big trunk for the golf clubs, and a usable back seat for the grandkids. They also want a car that gives the illusion of being SAFE. Most older drivers don't give a shit about 0 - 60 times or lateral G-force capability.

For the $25,000 price point, they did an admirable job. Yes, this car will have squeaks and rattles but if taken care of, I also bet it will last 200,000 miles without given the owner(s) too many serious problems. Just like a Lexus.

Like everything else, you get what you pay for. Buy a cheap car, get a cheap car. You want perceived quality, buy a more expensive car. Only you can decide if the extra money spent is being spent wisely on items that are important to YOU.

You dont even need to compare the frs to a lexus.. comparing it to my 1986 toyota corolla gts which has original miles of 53,xxx to be exact.. My AE86 does not make any chirping noise under the hood.. My interiors are all intact and not rattling.. my engine does not drop on idle even when a/c is turned on.. my door seals or suspensions seals are not leaking water... most definately i dont have a thud when i shift to first gear even with cusco 2 way lsd... And so on.. There is no excuse and this is not acceptable for a brand new car...

[FRSowner]

I totally disagree with your assessment. You're basically saying anything and everything under $25k is pure garbage, and that $25k itself is bargain basement quality? That is patently absurd. Squeaks and rattles because it's a $25k car? Again, absurd.


That's not what I said at all.

Toyota Yaris = McDonald's hamburger ($2.00)

Scion FR-S - Denny's hamburger ($4.00)

$50,000 new car - real restaurant style hamburger ($8.00+)


They will all satisfy your hunger and they are all made of beef (well, mostly). But which taste the best? Look the best? What kind of service will you get with the burger? It's all about perception of value and quality.

Some people think that McDonald's is great food, some think it's garbage.

Bottom line, is the $8.00+ hamburger worth it to YOU or do you expect restaurant style quality and attention when you pay a Denny's level price?

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

That's not what I said at all.

Toyota Yaris = McDonald's hamburger ($2.00)

Scion FR-S - Denny's hamburger ($4.00)

$50,000 new car - real restaurant style hamburger ($8.00+)


They will all satisfy your hunger and they are all made of beef (well, mostly). But which taste the best? Look the best? What kind of service will you get with the burger? It's all about perception of value and quality.

Some people think that McDonald's is great food, some think it's garbage.

Bottom line, is the $8.00+ hamburger worth it to YOU or do you expect restaurant style quality and attention when you pay a Denny's level price?

WTF are you babbling about? Face it, you wouldn't be saying any of this if you didn't already own one. You're trying to rationalize your quick decision to buy a car that you should have waited for feedback on first, nothing more.

[FRSowner]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

WTF are you babbling about? Face it, you wouldn't be saying any of this if you didn't already own one. You're trying to rationalize your quick decision to buy a car that you should have waited for feedback on first, nothing more.

Not at all and I don't see where you got that from. I have no real complaints about this car. I'm just concerned that many people are posting complaints and gripes about non-existent problems.

If I was constantly posting messages about how fantastic this car was and how much better it was than anything else, people might think I was a shill for Toyota.

But, there are people on this forums and others that post nothing but negative bullshit about a car they either don't even own or have no first hand knowledge of except for maybe a 10 minute test drive.

Good luck to you that take your car back to the dealership because the speaker cover rattles or the window squeaks. Report back to us how they treat you have your 15th visit for insignificant or non-existent bullshit 'issues'.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

Good luck to you that take your car back to the dealership because the speaker cover rattles or the window squeaks. Report back to us how they treat you have your 15th visit for insignificant or non-existent bullshit 'issues'.

I haven't been in for bullshit service 15 times on the last 4 vehicles I've owned combined! I couldn't imagine doing it 15 times within the first year on one vehicle, let alone in a few months. People keep saying how wonderful Subaru quality is, where is it? Now we have you saying we/you simply didn't pay enough to receive that quality. Bullshit, you did pay enough, more than enough.

[imravenit]

This thread is nonsense.. bottom line is these are valid complaints no matter what theres no exception whoever whatever toyota/subaru/nissan/mazda $1 $10000 $1000000 a brand new car shouldnt have any of these issues.. like i said even my 30 year old corolla does not have these problems and a 2013 that only has 100-300 miles chirping ratlling leaking etc? end!

[ANTiSOViET]

Originally Posted by Heero

TBH... the genesis coupe is in a comparable price range and Hyundai did a much better job with the interior on that car. I understand the whole Won vs Yen thing... but still. You would think the little things like the climate control would be at least look a little modernized.

Don't get me wrong, the limited BRZ's interior is nice and I actually like it more then the GCs. But the FRS and the BRZ premium?

First off, the genesis coupe is not the same car. It tries to be the same car in the same way that American manufacturers make "sports" cars. It's 1000lbs heavier, either a turbo 4 or V6 so the engine orientation is wrong...I mean yes it has shiny buttons on the inside. And I'll agree it is a nicer looking car on the inside (not that I don't love my FR-s but...you know) but its still missing the purposeful execution of driving excitement. I look around and there are three cars that are "similar" in execution but still different, none of them are the Genesis Coupe.

1) The Mazda RX-8: There is no reason for this car to exist other then driving pleasure. It's not practical, or particularly good looking. It doesn't beat an SiR in a straight line (okay it might I don't know/care). But it was a hell of a car to bomb around in cause it was small light and fast. The rotary engine put the weight in the right place and everything was built to make it more fun to drive in the corners.

2) The Volkswagon GTi: This car was built to make the hot-hatch market real once the CRX was done. They are driven by the wrong wheels but still an example of what driving pleasure was about. Even the Germans know that this is a fun driving car but it is still more expensive than the FR-S/BRZ, heavier, and it's more expensive.

3) The Lotus Elise: Heck it's even powered by a Toyota...but that's aside the point. Its a $60,000 car that beats damn near everything through a corner. If you've ever sat in or driven one you know that they are "Spartan" on the inside (lots of aluminium to remind you that the road is only that far away) but it's literally the closest thing to the FR-S/BRZ and that's where the comparison should be made. Small, light, fast through the corners and doesn't give a shit about "creature comforts" or "technology". The tech in the car is meant entirely to make you go through a corner faster, exactly as it should be. But the other half of owning a Lotus is that it isn't fun to drive in traffic, it isn't a hole lot of fun to drive anywhere except on well paved highways and tracks because it's strung up like a heroine addict between pay-checks.

So yeah, there are other cars out there with a nicer interior, but they are built for a different purpose and demographic. I don't agree that we should all STFU and not complain when our brand new cars aren't working properly. But I think that the comparison to anything other than actual road going track cars should be told to stuff it in equal measure as I should shut up that my injection system doesn't like PetroCanada 94 gasoline.

[regal]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

I totally disagree with your assessment. You're basically saying anything and everything under $25k is pure garbage, and that $25k itself is bargain basement quality? That is patently absurd. Squeaks and rattles because it's a $25k car? Again, absurd.


That's not what I said at all.

Toyota Yaris = McDonald's hamburger ($2.00)

Scion FR-S - Denny's hamburger ($4.00)

$50,000 new car - real restaurant style hamburger ($8.00+)


They will all satisfy your hunger and they are all made of beef (well, mostly). But which taste the best? Look the best? What kind of service will you get with the burger? It's all about perception of value and quality.

Some people think that McDonald's is great food, some think it's garbage.

Bottom line, is the $8.00+ hamburger worth it to YOU or do you expect restaurant style quality and attention when you pay a Denny's level price?

I bought a new Yaris in 2009 when there were rumors of a a return of the AE86. The Yaris has amazing quality for the price, it handled like crap so I put TRD springs and struts with decent tires and now its actually a fun drive, zero quality issues. The goal was to trade it in when the new AE86 TOYOTA was released, but instead a SUBARU was released. I thinks that the issue here, folks expecting Toyota build quality from a Subaru. So I am a bit on the fence, don't care about the interior just the drivetrain especially the longevity of the DI boxer engine.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

I totally disagree with your assessment. You're basically saying anything and everything under $25k is pure garbage, and that $25k itself is bargain basement quality? That is patently absurd. Squeaks and rattles because it's a $25k car? Again, absurd.


That's not what I said at all.

Toyota Yaris = McDonald's hamburger ($2.00)

Scion FR-S - Denny's hamburger ($4.00)

$50,000 new car - real restaurant style hamburger ($8.00+)


They will all satisfy your hunger and they are all made of beef (well, mostly). But which taste the best? Look the best? What kind of service will you get with the burger? It's all about perception of value and quality.

Some people think that McDonald's is great food, some think it's garbage.

Bottom line, is the $8.00+ hamburger worth it to YOU or do you expect restaurant style quality and attention when you pay a Denny's level price?

FR-S is a Five Guys burger...it's reasonably priced and stomps a lot of pricier competition...

[TRD_86]

I bought brand new 98 prelude 200hp for 25k 15yr ago, gas energy cost was $1/gal. The 86 also has the same 25k price when gas now $4/gal. And the 86 is out perform the prelude in every aspects !
The design and engineering of this car alone should be 30k base.

[russv]

Originally Posted by sho220

FR-S is a Five Guys burger...it's reasonably priced and stomps a lot of pricier competition...

I'm thinking more In-N-Out Burger

[Capstan]

Originally Posted by ANTiSOViET

First off, the genesis coupe is not the same car. It tries to be the same car in the same way that American manufacturers make "sports" cars. It's 1000lbs heavier, either a turbo 4 or V6 so the engine orientation is wrong...I mean yes it has shiny buttons on the inside. And I'll agree it is a nicer looking car on the inside (not that I don't love my FR-s but...you know) but its still missing the purposeful execution of driving excitement. I look around and there are three cars that are "similar" in execution but still different, none of them are the Genesis Coupe.

Sorry but the Genesis Coupe is 600lbs heavier, not 1000, and it has very considerably more horsepower in a somewhat larger car. There are adult humans that can fit in the back seat. The 2013 model is definitely a viable alternative to the FR-S/BRZ. Have you been in one?

Another alternative is the Mazda Miata. Its lighter, about 10 inches shorter, handles very nicely and has an integrated convertible hardtop.