2017 Civic Type R at Nurburgring

[unhappymeal]

It's well engineered. It drives great (the suspension is so oily smooth). At the end of the day though, it's still a FF car and it feels like it.

To address the specific video, the K20C1 is probably the best turbo inline-4 out there, but it's still a turbo inline-4. You can't walk five feet without smacking into a car with one under the hood.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Still debating on whether or not to get one these. They're just sooooo good.

depends on if you want a civic or not.

[daiheadjai]

The engine might not be an issue, but the gearbox does seem to have some documented problems (grinding etc.).

Gotta say, Honda's recent offerings seem to have lost the reliability plot. A buddy has the Civic HB sport (1.5L turbo EarthDreams), and apparently many of them (similar to the CRV) have oil dilution issues (especially in colder climate areas).

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

The engine might not be an issue, but the gearbox does seem to have some documented problems (grinding etc.).

Gotta say, Honda's recent offerings seem to have lost the reliability plot. A buddy has the Civic HB sport (1.5L turbo EarthDreams), and apparently many of them (similar to the CRV) have oil dilution issues (especially in colder climate areas).

Grinding and synchro issues have been a staple of Honda's hot FWD offerings since the B18. My K20 Civic Si had to have the 3rd gear and synchro replaced since it would grind when cold and eventually started just popping out of gear.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Wait for the MY19 for sure

At this point, it would have to be an MY19.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. Still a Civic.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

depends on if you want a civic or not.

Always thought these were kind of stupid arguments. Of course it's still a Civic. Just like the WRX/STI is still an Impreza (regardless if they dropped the impreza name from it), the Focus ST/RS is still a Focus, and the GTI/R is still a Golf. This carries over even to BMW M vehicles and MB AMGs. Just like a Sig is still just a pistol and a 5 star sushi restaraunt is still just raw fish. I mean, obviously; but that doesn't really tell the whole story.

They all have their pros and cons. I have an '16 STI right now. Good car, but it has its shortcomings:

-Fuel economy is shit for a 4cyl
-Ride quality is meh
-Interior quality is meh
-Infotainment system sucks
-Engine has its share of shortcomings

It's a good car, and I still enjoy it. But for a daily driver, some of the things mentioned above become kind of annoying after a while. None of them are deal breakers, but they're things that become more apparent driving it day after day.

The CTR surpasses the STI in terms of performance, but is substantially better in every aspect I mentioned above, while having even more practicality as a hatchback. Yes, it's FWD, but it rotates far better than a WRX, STI, or Golf R does. For one car to do everything, I think it's a really compelling option; especially for myself and possibly having a kid in the next year or two.

I like the idea of a vehicle that can do everything you need to do during the week and be able to have fun at the track or on a good back road on the weekend. 86/BRZ is perfectly capable, but the lack of rear doors or usable rear seats limits some of the practicality. I know child seats fit in the rear, but there's no denying it's a PITA compared to managing one in a standard sedan with rear doors.

With regards to FWD vs whatever else. I've driven and owned multiple FWD, RWD, and AWD vehicles. Without a doubt, I prefer RWD over everything else. But I've driven some absolutely awesome FWD and AWD vehicles just as I've driven some terrible RWD cars.

There will always be limits and people will always have their preferences, but I have no affinity or loyalty to a specific manufacture or drivetrain layout. If it's a good car, it's a good car. If it drives/handles well, then it does. I don't think there's any denying that the new CTR handles extremely well. Like said above, there's limits and some things it will not ever be able to do because of the drivetrain layout, but the car is still damn impressive, especially in the performance category. Not even in a "it's good **for a FWD**" kind of way. It's just good lol.

[TylerLieberman]

In all actuality, the fact is that the CTR is the vehicle checks the most boxes for what I want in an every day vehicle for sub 50k in today's market.

M3 is next, but even how I would option it (extremely base) the vehicle comes in at 70k, and after having worked for BMW, owning one of their vehicles out of warranty isn't very appealing to me.

Shame Toyota doesn't still make the Chaser lol. 4 doors, RWD, Turbo I6 with manual trans. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

At this point, it would have to be an MY19.





Always thought these were kind of stupid arguments. Of course it's still a Civic. Just like the WRX/STI is still an Impreza (regardless if they dropped the impreza name from it), the Focus ST/RS is still a Focus, and the GTI/R is still a Golf. This carries over even to BMW M vehicles and MB AMGs. Just like a Sig is still just a pistol and a 5 star sushi restaraunt is still just raw fish. I mean, obviously; but that doesn't really tell the whole story.

They all have their pros and cons. I have an '16 STI right now. Good car, but it has its shortcomings:

-Fuel economy is shit for a 4cyl
-Ride quality is meh
-Interior quality is meh
-Infotainment system sucks
-Engine has its share of shortcomings

It's a good car, and I still enjoy it. But for a daily driver, some of the things mentioned above become kind of annoying after a while. None of them are deal breakers, but they're things that become more apparent driving it day after day.

The CTR surpasses the STI in terms of performance, but is substantially better in every aspect I mentioned above, while having even more practicality as a hatchback. Yes, it's FWD, but it rotates far better than a WRX, STI, or Golf R does. For one car to do everything, I think it's a really compelling option; especially for myself and possibly having a kid in the next year or two.

I like the idea of a vehicle that can do everything you need to do during the week and be able to have fun at the track or on a good back road on the weekend. 86/BRZ is perfectly capable, but the lack of rear doors or usable rear seats limits some of the practicality. I know child seats fit in the rear, but there's no denying it's a PITA compared to managing one in a standard sedan with rear doors.

With regards to FWD vs whatever else. I've driven and owned multiple FWD, RWD, and AWD vehicles. Without a doubt, I prefer RWD over everything else. But I've driven some absolutely awesome FWD and AWD vehicles just as I've driven some terrible RWD cars.

There will always be limits and people will always have their preferences, but I have no affinity or loyalty to a specific manufacture or drivetrain layout. If it's a good car, it's a good car. If it drives/handles well, then it does. I don't think there's any denying that the new CTR handles extremely well. Like said above, there's limits and some things it will not ever be able to do because of the drivetrain layout, but the car is still damn impressive, especially in the performance category. Not even in a "it's good **for a FWD**" kind of way. It's just good lol.

Wasn't an argument. Just a simple statement of fact. It is indeed still a Civic.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Wasn't an argument. Just a simple statement of fact. It is indeed still a Civic.

BUT!!!!

It’s a Type R. And it has red seats.

[Sasquachulator]

i wasn't arguing either. If you want a civic, you pick the best civic for the job (Whether type R, SI, regular). If you don't, no harm no foul.

I don't share the same viewpoint not because I dont like em, not because it IS a civic, its just that I feel like I've "outgrown" the civic (and all econoboxes for that matter) so I look to the higher tier brands for my automotive needs.

When it comes to the 86, I feel it serves a different purpose than econoboxes that go fast, even if the capabilities are fairly similar.

[WolfpackS2k]

I can't get over how ugly it is.

Or the fact that I'd destroy a set of tires every time I went to the track (for a weekend).

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

i wasn't arguing either. If you want a civic, you pick the best civic for the job (Whether type R, SI, regular). If you don't, no harm no foul.

I don't share the same viewpoint not because I dont like em, not because it IS a civic, its just that I feel like I've "outgrown" the civic (and all econoboxes for that matter) so I look to the higher tier brands for my automotive needs.

When it comes to the 86, I feel it serves a different purpose than econoboxes that go fast, even if the capabilities are fairly similar.

Perhaps I misunderstood the idea behind your and Tcoat's responses. My apologies.

I 100% understand what you mean by outgrowing Civics. I was never a giant Honda fan when I was growing up, largely because of the negative sterotype associated with the owners and such.

I got to drive a few really well setup vehicles of the older days and I understood the appeal (EK, EG, DC vehicles). Lightweight, nimble cars that scream past 8k RPM with instant throttle response and amazing shifter feel. They weren't fast by any means, but they were fun to just smash through the gears and huck into through a corner. Lift off throttle a smidge and the rear would rotate just a hair.

Similar to what kind of interactions the 86/BRZ give, but just a different method of doing it. The last proper Civic of the "good ol' days" to me was the 07-11 Civic (FA5 or FD2 depending on where you live). After that, they started to go a different direction, especially with the current generation.

I'd take a screaming NA car over a cookie cutter eco 4cyl turbo any day. But that aside, I think the current Type R has a lot to offer. I think it's a formidable competitor in its class.

With that being said, it makes sense to me why I, personally, have an interest in it. I wish more manufacturers made similar vehicles, but it just doesn't seem to be what the majority of people society want, so they make other vehicles instead.

I still have a soft spot for 86/BRZs and probably will my whole life. It reminds me so much of what I loved about cars growing up when I was messing with 240s. Hell, if I can get a good one when my kid becomes of age to drive, I'd happily buy him/her one to learn how to drive/work on cars.(assuming they're into cars).

As time goes on though, priorities and things change. I still may get one, but the more I think about it, the more it just makes sense to stick with a 4dr vehicle that offers a bit more practicality.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I know child seats fit in the rear, but there's no denying it's a PITA compared to managing one in a standard sedan with rear doors.

In all honesty it’s not that hard to get the seat in and out. The biggest problem is the leg room left over for someone in front of the baby seat. The opening behind the seat is just big enough to throw the seat in there without having to cram it in there. My wife doesn’t work so I rarely have to take the baby anywhere. I primarily drive the car too and from work and random errands on the weekend and an autox here and there. This weekend I chose the FRS over the Suburban to do a Home Depot run to get a 1x6x6 which was super easy.

If you don’t need to lug a baby on a daily basis and you have another car that is more practical then I wouldn’t rule out the Twins.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by ermax

In all honesty it’s not that hard to get the seat in and out. The biggest problem is the leg room left over for someone in front of the baby seat. The opening behind the seat is just big enough to throw the seat in there without having to cram it in there. My wife doesn’t work so I rarely have to take the baby anywhere. I primarily drive the car too and from work and random errands on the weekend and an autox here and there. This weekend I chose the FRS over the Suburban to do a Home Depot run to get a 1x6x6 which was super easy.

If you don’t need to lug a baby on a daily basis and you have another car that is more practical then I wouldn’t rule out the Twins.

Oh I’ve seen the pictures lol. The problem specifically is the first couple years when using a rear facing seat. Wife has a Tacoma so we definitely have a vehicle that’s more suitable.

I just don’t want to have to rely on using one vehicle any time the three of us want to go somewhere.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I can't get over how ugly it is.

Or the fact that I'd destroy a set of tires every time I went to the track (for a weekend).

Same. WTF Honda. It's a nice motor - I'd rather have that in the new Atom 4