Help winter wheels/tires for tS

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by churchx

Rai-zero: are snow/ice tires worse when warm weather and on good pavement? yes. But it makes sense to give up some grip when it's plentiful, to gain all grip possible, when it's scarce, as later is when there is higher probability to get into accident or stranded. At least for ones driving within legal limits on public roads.

But at what point does it make sense?

For example, everyone here has made a trade off in having back seat room for performance. If you don't use your back seats 98% of the time, then are they really that important to you?

In the 2% of cases where (insert car parameter) is not sufficient, you just have to find some other way to deal with the situation.

[Rai-zero]

Originally Posted by churchx

Rai-zero: are snow/ice tires worse when warm weather and on good pavement? yes. But it makes sense to give up some grip when it's plentiful, to gain all grip possible, when it's scarce, as later is when there is higher probability to get into accident or stranded. At least for ones driving within legal limits on public roads.

I am not talking about warm weather. I am talking about temps from -1 to 40 degrees.

Snow/Ice tires are FAR WORSE than performance winter tires in all conditions except in snow/ice.

Look you are on the HW going 70 mph and you need to make an emergency stop you will need 1-3 car lengths longer to stop if you have snow/ice than performance winter.

I am not making this stuff up, it's well known that performance winter tires perform better than all season, better than summer and better than snow/ice tires when it's cold out but not snow/ice on the roads. Also as I said 98% the roads are clear because they plow the roads. I don't want to compromise my performance for 98% of the time just to be better 2% when it's actually snow covered.

There can be months during the winter when it never snows.

Let's just summarize (copied from other sources):

Performance Winter
Best if you live in an area that does not receive much snow and ice or where the roads are usually plowed
Will allow you to preserve a lot of the handling you had with your performance tires
Will not perform as well as Studless Ice and Snow or Studdable Winter / Snow tires in harsh conditions

Studless Ice and Snow or Studdable Winter / Snow
Provide the best snow and ice traction
Handling won't be as responsive as a performance or all-season tire

https://jalopnik.com/a-guide-to-how-...963Performance
performance winter tires are still designed to be used in icy and cold conditions, but they are ideal for clear roads and warmer days. They’re better in the wet and dry, plus they feel better to drive on. Moreover, they have a higher speed rating than their more extreme studless cousins. Performance winter tires won’t have the same bite as studless tires do in the snow, but if, say, you live in a city and don’t drive huge distances every day and still want a nice winter tire in case you get caught in a snow storm, then performance winters are probably your best option.

[churchx]

handling of performance tires? All seasons, or "european" snow tires .. they still will feel way softer and won't net one sharp handling. It's not about sidewall stiffness, but about soft rubber compound and extra seeps, making rubber patches squirm around. Take those away, and you get summer tire, that is hard when cold, and that doesn't grip on snow/ice.
When i drive on public roads i don't race. In winter i do race .. on snow & ice tracks .
That "FAR WORSE" (imho overexagerated) is sufficient for me to drive at highway speeds with traffic flow and lets me overtake. But when worst happens, i have all that extra possible grip to keep driving normaly.
I live in city, where i drive most of mileage. Most main roads are regularly plown and salted. Same with main highways one drives 95% on, outside cities. Still, i don't want to have extra pain digging out or be towed from 150m unplown yard till i get to those cleaned up roads, i don't want to think of changing car on rare occasions when i have to drive to some snowy countryside or going skiing (with just 10km snowy vs 150km 'good roads') or when roads are still unplown after heavy snowstorm in night, but i have to drive to work. Or when there is black ice on some road/bridges.
That's my choice i arrived to. Even if snow/ice on road is there only in 2% from total mileage driven, it has chance to spoil everything as if it had been much larger share. Extra hour or two digging out vs 20min driving, even if 150m vs 10km?

[why?]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

Here is the straight dope.

Snow/ice tires are better in snow/ice but *worse*everywhere*else* than every other tire. WORSE THAN EVERY TIRE when it's not snow/ice.

I am not driving in snow and ice that much so I don't need snow and ice tires. Where I live the roads are plowed after it snows so 98% of the driving will be on dry roads or in rain.

Now my car has Summer tires so they are not good in cold temps so if the temp is less than 40 degrees then I need to get either all season or snow tires. In this case performance winter tires give the feel and drive of all season tires but are better in snow than all season if I am forced to drive in snow.

If you would think about it the snow/ice are better for snow and ice but worse everywhere else. Since my driving will be 98% not snow, I will buy performance winter tires are better than all season in cold and far better than snow and ice tires in wet/dry conditions.

Here is a review that test snow/ice tires
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=193

here is a review of performance winter tires
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=181

example from test (similar/same test car).

Dunlop Winter Maxx (Snow./ice tire)
Ice stopping 12-0 mph 35.4 feet
stopping 50-0 wet/dry 159/97 feet
cornering wet/dry .54/.81 G

Michelin X-Ice Xi3 (Snow/ice tire)
ice stopping 30 feet
stopping 50-0 wet/dry 131/93 feet
cornering wet/dry .63/.84 G

Dunlop WinterSport (performance winter tires)
Ice stopping 12-0 mph 35.6 feet
stopping 50-0 wet/dry 105/91 feet
cornering wet/dry .75/.88 G

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 (performance winter)
Ice stopping 32 feet
stopping 50-0 wet/dry 105/88 feet
cornering wet/dry .76/.89 G

You can look at the tests overall but the summery is this: Snow/Ice tires good in snow but not great in dry/wet conditions.

Look at the test snow/ice take 159 or 131 feet to stop in the wet vs 105 feet for the performance tires it's a no brainer to get the performance winter tires for a performance car. Plus I have an AWD car that I will drive when it is really snowing or ice out.

Performance winter tires good all around in cold wet or dry weather

Sorry but I disagree 1 million percent. Winter tires are for the cold. They are for crappy conditions when you absolutely need to get to work. If you have a second car for those conditions then that is totally different. Just as it is if you never see snow or ice. But that isn't the conditions I am talking about.

Most have 1 car they drive every day. Those conditions where the roads are crappy are all that matters in the winter.

As someone that literally had a car get stuck in a few inches of slush because of crappy all seasons, I'm not taking chances when it comes to winter tires.

General winter tires are the best buy out there. They are rumored to be old Nokian designs, they handle blizzard white out conditions amazing, and frankly they handled the dry weather really well. They are also among the least expensive winter tires out there.

[Jfheisenberg]

I can recommend the Blizzak WS80. Been to very bad weather and those tires has not disappointed me. Sometimes i event felt that this little rwd car was an awd truck lol,.