Am I stupid if I don't buy a Civic Si?

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Just curious what transmission are you planning on getting auto or manual?

I was going to ask the same question.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by DandoX

lol I enjoy this thread. Keeps me entertained during a boring day at work.

Just curious what transmission are you planning on getting auto or manual?

I'm leaning 90-95% manual, although I feel like I'm in stop-and-go traffic often enough that I've been wanting an automatic for the last few years. But for some reason the automatic 86 is like 1.5 seconds slower to 60?? Not sure why there's such a big difference. Driving the 86 around town, it was annoying to be caught in 2nd at a low speed and not being able to downshift to accelerate faster... does anybody know if automatics downshift to 1st? That might make the automatic faster for some common daily driving scenarios.

That, and I'm bad at heel-and-toeing, although I guess I won't get any better at it if I get the automatic...

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by motrek

does anybody know if automatics downshift to 1st?

They do.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

They do.

Cool. Well, that makes the decision that much harder.

Still probably going to get the manual though.

Shame they don't offer a double-clutch. Only a ~$1000 option from VW.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by motrek

I'm leaning 90-95% manual, although I feel like I'm in stop-and-go traffic often enough that I've been wanting an automatic for the last few years. But for some reason the automatic 86 is like 1.5 seconds slower to 60?? Not sure why there's such a big difference. Driving the 86 around town, it was annoying to be caught in 2nd at a low speed and not being able to downshift to accelerate faster... does anybody know if automatics downshift to 1st? That might make the automatic faster for some common daily driving scenarios.

That, and I'm bad at heel-and-toeing, although I guess I won't get any better at it if I get the automatic...

Automatic gearing is different, its kind of geared for fuel economy vs the Manual Transmission.
And downshifting 2nd to first at low speed? How low are we talking about?
My old Corolla XRS wouldn't allow me to downshift into first unless I was damn near stopped.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Automatic gearing is different, its kind of geared for fuel economy vs the Manual Transmission.
And downshifting 2nd to first at low speed? How low are we talking about?
My old Corolla XRS wouldn't allow me to downshift into first unless I was damn near stopped.

I can under 20mph.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Automatic gearing is different, its kind of geared for fuel economy vs the Manual Transmission.
And downshifting 2nd to first at low speed? How low are we talking about?
My old Corolla XRS wouldn't allow me to downshift into first unless I was damn near stopped.

Like if you're going 20 MPH in 2nd for some reason and you want to pass somebody. Sounds like an automatic could get you up to 30 MPH quicker than a manual.

I don't think you're supposed to downshift into 1st unless you're basically stopped in any car. I could be wrong. That's something somebody told me like 20 years ago. I think some transmissions don't even have synchros on 1st.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

You're engaging in hyperbole, Tcoat.

I'm not saying it's impossible to drive.

I'm not saying it's "insufficient"

I'm not saying it's a deal breaker - consider I happily drive mine as a daily commuter.

What I *am* saying is it makes a difference - IMHO (and other humble opinions as well) having better low/mid range torque makes for a more relaxed drive, especially when it stop/go traffic. Some people may prefer a Civic because they like the different powerband better than our torque-dippy torque curves.

Jesus you guys just love to piss, moan, and argue

Yes a good torque curve really eases up the tension on that stop and go drive. Sure does feel more relaxing.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by motrek

Like if you're going 20 MPH in 2nd for some reason and you want to pass somebody. Sounds like an automatic could get you up to 30 MPH quicker than a manual.

I don't think you're supposed to downshift into 1st unless you're basically stopped in any car. I could be wrong. That's something somebody told me like 20 years ago. I think some transmissions don't even have synchros on 1st.

The AT will let you downshift into 1st as long at it won't put you in an overrev situation. That's going to be pretty slow I suspect.

The AT also can do 60MPH in 2nd gear which I understand the manual won't do. The primary reason the AT is slower than the MT from zero to 60 is the lack of launch control, IMO.

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by motrek

Like if you're going 20 MPH in 2nd for some reason and you want to pass somebody. Sounds like an automatic could get you up to 30 MPH quicker than a manual.

I don't think you're supposed to downshift into 1st unless you're basically stopped in any car. I could be wrong. That's something somebody told me like 20 years ago. I think some transmissions don't even have synchros on 1st.

You can downshift into first, you just need to match rev it first. But yea I generally avoid it if I don't have to. I only do it when I'm driving behind someone who's accelerating painfully slow and want to pass. Or when I'm coming out of a tight turn on autocross.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The AT will let you downshift into 1st as long at it won't put you in an overrev situation. That's going to be pretty slow I suspect.

The AT also can do 60MPH in 2nd gear which I understand the manual won't do. The primary reason the AT is slower than the MT from zero to 60 is the lack of launch control, IMO.

I have shifted into first only a handful of times. And honestly, IMO, the car hates it. So this is not a behavior I replicate often.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by motrek

I mean, are you saying that downshifting DOESN'T take time and effort? Nobody said it took a LOT of time. Nobody said it took a LOT of effort. Nobody said that it's a HUGE inconvenience or that they CAN'T do it. But it's a pretty simple physical fact that it takes SOME time and effort and it's ridiculous to try to argue otherwise.

I am saying that you are making a big deal it if a normal everyday action required to drive a MT. The over analyzing the need to shift is frightening it’s shear lack of any reasonable thought.
To answer the thread title at this point I think you are stupid to by an 86. For that matter I don’t think it matters what car you buy

[qcbaker]

I downshift into first almost every day when I turn into the parking lot at my job. I coast through the turn into the lot in 2nd, and then rev match downshift to first to putter around the lot to find a spot. Never had any lurching issues or 1st being unavailable. But, I usually am going ~10mph or so when I shift.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

I have shifted into first only a handful of times. And honestly, IMO, the car hates it. So this is not a behavior I replicate often.

It definitely whines up if you aren't ready for it. To me it's no worse than running up 1st gear to the redline but it seems more natural in that direction rather than shifting down into it. I can't really imagine a situation where you would want to shift down to 1st from 2nd while trying to accelerate.

I have used it on occasion to engine brake.