Doug Demuro’s review of my personal 2018 BRZtS

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Hold up. Most of those cars listed dont have torque, sure.... but what they dont generally do is build power, stop and drop, then build power again. That's what this motor does. Even a versa note doesn't have that characteristic, what torque it has it builds linearly. Vtec cars build up to VTEC and then climb. It's a different characteristic.

On a bright side, this glorious torque dip - which as I understand it was a result of some attempts to make the vehicle more fuel-efficient at cruising speed - means I can get 35 MPG while cruising at almost 80 MPH, lol. #GlassHalfFull

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bzdont

If I just hit the gas, it can take a lot longer than that to get out of the dip. And so I downshift instead in order to accelerate, just like you do.


Don't get me wrong, I love this car otherwise, the handling, the steering, etc. But it's amazing how many people just can't bring themselves to acknowledge the importance and impact of this obvious flaw.

It is amazing is that the "flaw" is so grossly overblown. I accelerate from the dip all the time and not once has it caused me an issue. It is literally a fraction of a second.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

On a bright side, this glorious torque dip - which as I understand it was a result of some attempts to make the vehicle more fuel-efficient at cruising speed - means I can get 35 MPG while cruising at almost 80 MPH, lol. #GlassHalfFull

Yeah, I always appreciate that. Thanks subaru!!!

Although my old forester didn't have torque dip and did almost the same thing...

[Stang70Fastback]

I honestly have never really had an issue with it in traffic. If I'm looking to blast into a gap between cars, I'm downshifting anyway. The ONLY time I've found myself complaining about the torque dip is in autocross where you generally don't WANT to shift, and often come out of tight elements right smack-dab in the middle of the torque dip in 2nd gear.

In daily driving, it's never really bothered me, but I also don't drive all that aggressively in daily driving unless, as stated earlier, I'm specifically trying to get around a lane-hogging vehicle or some-such, in which case, as I said, I'm downshifting regardless.

Also, I never get tired of downshifting. It's fun! That sounds like an excuse, but the whole damned point of the car is to be engaging and fun. That's why I bought it, and why I bought it in stick, lol.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Hold up. Most of those cars listed dont have torque, sure.... but what they dont generally do is build power, stop and drop, then build power again. That's what this motor does. Even a versa note doesn't have that characteristic, what torque it has it builds linearly. Vtec cars build up to VTEC and then climb. It's a different characteristic.

The difference I see is that you reach peak torque and stay there in those low torque cars (which has no torque so you get what you can get) vs the twins you have some torque from start, (1-3k) then lose about 20ish lb/ft after you get into the dip (which is in the 3k-5k range, so cruising range). Then it builds power no different than the torqueless wonsters.


Im not sure if the 20lb/ft that you lose would have made that much of a difference in terms of having to shift or not, but the fact is you still have to downshift like any other torqueless wonder motor.

[Dadhawk]

...and all this time I just thought the torque dip was simulated turbo lag....

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

The difference I see is that you reach peak torque and stay there in those low torque cars (which has no torque so you get what you can get) vs the twins you have some torque from start, (1-3k) then lose about 20ish lb/ft after you get into the dip (which is in the 3k-5k range, so cruising range). Then it builds power no different than the torqueless wonsters.


Im not sure if the 20lb/ft that you lose would have made that much of a difference in terms of having to shift or not, but the fact is you still have to downshift like any other torqueless wonder motor.

It's not the numbers, it's the feel. You feel the drop in torque.

[murdoc]

The best thing I have for making this car feel fast is driving my parent's 4 cylinder Dodge Stratus every few weeks. Nothing like an 10 second 0-60 to put things in perspective.

I imagine this is similar when Doug Demuro tests a BRZ after driving a Huracan or an 812 Superfast.

I don't watch Doug Demuro expecting Tiff Needell or Chris Harris.

As for the torque dip, I feel like they should just pull timing before 3500 to make it flat and everyone will be happy!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

I honestly have never really had an issue with it in traffic. If I'm looking to blast into a gap between cars, I'm downshifting anyway. The ONLY time I've found myself complaining about the torque dip is in autocross where you generally don't WANT to shift, and often come out of tight elements right smack-dab in the middle of the torque dip in 2nd gear.

In daily driving, it's never really bothered me, but I also don't drive all that aggressively in daily driving unless, as stated earlier, I'm specifically trying to get around a lane-hogging vehicle or some-such, in which case, as I said, I'm downshifting regardless.

Also, I never get tired of downshifting. It's fun! That sounds like an excuse, but the whole damned point of the car is to be engaging and fun. That's why I bought it, and why I bought it in stick, lol.

This ^
There are certainly circumstances that would make the dip mildly annoying but daily driving should not be one of them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Yeah, I always appreciate that. Thanks subaru!!!

Although my old forester didn't have torque dip and did almost the same thing...

Your old Forester did not have to meet current emission control or fuel consumption standards.
It isn't like they just couldn't build the engine without the dip but compromises had to be made and they figured this was the best bet.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

...and all this time I just thought the torque dip was simulated turbo lag....

I think its more like ghetto VTEC :P

[Chikna]

Wow, now I know what dip is after reading the entire thread, I asked a similar question on another thread and I got a response "Don't get there!" now I know what to ask and what not LOL.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your old Forester did not have to meet current emission control or fuel consumption standards.
It isn't like they just couldn't build the engine without the dip but compromises had to be made and they figured this was the best bet.

What? It was an 09, lol. Check out other subarus of current years for noticeable torque dip if thats the argument...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

What? It was an 09, lol. Check out other subarus of current years for noticeable torque dip if thats the argument...

The regs are not the same as even 09. Not even close. In fact they get far far more strident in 2020 so don't expect engines to get better.
Please list all the other Subarus using the FA20 engine so that I can compare.