Base Cayman vs BRZ

[86 South Africa]

ah yes... came to see more cool stuff about Caymans and BRZs... found another internet argument.

Why I'm surprised is the only thing that surprises me. Sigh.

[AnotherSlowAE86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. The internet can be a blessing for information or a horror story that builds out of nothing.
Anybody reading this forum would be positive all the crank bearings are going to spin. When I was on the DSM forum it appeared that every car would develop crank walk. In the Porsche example people are convinced they will all blow up as soon as warranty expires. None of any of those are true of course but since people only hear about the issues they forget (or ignore?) that these examples are a very tiny minority of the cars.
If there is indeed an issue with the majority of any car there will be a recall (i.e. the 2014 911 GT3 or the Focus RS).
Back in the day before the internet people were not nearly as worried about failures since you didn't hear about every single one and only found out if it impacted the majority of cars.

I've noticed this myself. The hysteria people build up in forums or Facebook groups around certain models of cars and the issues they have often turns into a monster. I try to take these kinds of things into consideration, as the stories exist for a reason. But I also take it all with a grain of salt.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by AnotherSlowAE86

I've noticed this myself. The hysteria people build up in forums or Facebook groups around certain models of cars and the issues they have often turns into a monster. I try to take these kinds of things into consideration, as the stories exist for a reason. But I also take it all with a grain of salt.

I spent much of my time driving DSM/Mitsubishis fearing the dreaded crankwalk only to eventually get legit data that it occurred on about 1.5% of the cars unless poorly modded and then it hit a whopping 5%. The internet made it seem like it was more like 99%.

[daoshao]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I spent much of my time driving DSM/Mitsubishis fearing the dreaded crankwalk only to eventually get legit data that it occurred on about 1.5% of the cars unless poorly modded and then it hit a whopping 5%. The internet made it seem like it was more like 99%.

Yep, Owned 2 gst and 1 gsx. No crankwalk issues experienced in my years of ownership. I dealt more with previous owners lack of maintenance repairs then anything on those models.

[ZDan]

~2000-2005 Porsches, the risk of IMS bearing failure wrecking the motor is/was very real. ~10% failure rate by 90k miles. That's a LOT.

A really *really* dumb design decision, to use the same casting for both heads, required an intermediate shaft to run through the engine as cam drive for one head was at the transmission end. After a whole buncha wrecked engines that they did everything they could to not stand behind (had to be class-action sued by a mass of rightfully pissed Porsche owners), they *finally* eliminated this ridiculous and unnecessary shaft and its failure-prone bearing in 2009.

Pre-2000 996s and boxsters had a dual-row version of the bearing which apparently was more robust. And from 2006 on they went to a larger single-row which also had a much lower failure rate. But still could fail and wreck a very expensive engine... When I was looking at Caymans I finally decided that 987.2 was the only way to go to be sure. Then I bought BRZ instead

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by ZDan

~2000-2005 Porsches, the risk of IMS bearing failure wrecking the motor is/was very real. ~10% failure rate by 90k miles. That's a LOT.

A really *really* dumb design decision, to use the same casting for both heads, required an intermediate shaft to run through the engine as cam drive for one head was at the transmission end. After a whole buncha wrecked engines that they did everything they could to not stand behind (had to be class-action sued by a mass of rightfully pissed Porsche owners), they *finally* eliminated this ridiculous and unnecessary shaft and its failure-prone bearing in 2009.

Pre-2000 996s and boxsters had a dual-row version of the bearing which apparently was more robust. And from 2006 on they went to a larger single-row which also had a much lower failure rate. But still could fail and wreck a very expensive engine... When I was looking at Caymans I finally decided that 987.2 was the only way to go to be sure. Then I bought BRZ instead

Also a matter of consequences. BRZ blows the engine, it hurts but manageable. Cayman blows the engine, it's a financial disaster. Would you rather have a 10% chance of being shot in the leg by a bb gun or a 10% chance of being shot in the leg by a .38?

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

FYI I put at least 10,000 miles a year onto my Cayman.

I think what people were alluding to, besides some keeping their Porsches as garage queens, was perhaps that running costs for Porsches are pretty high. Yes they're durable vehicles (more so than any other German car) but if you don't self perform maintenance it's not cheap. And the newer the Porsche the more complex it is, making it harder to self perform maint.

Roughly speaking, do you know the difference in self perform maintenance between a '12 Cayman S versus a '14 Cayman S ? Or a '12 base Cayman versus a '14 base Cayman ? Also, over the long run I'd think a manual would be less costly then PDK , but I haven't heard of any real PDK stories of maintenance / failure / etc.

I should google the inherent advantages / disadvantages of the 2.7L Cayman versus the 2.9L Cayman. Less may be more.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Roughly speaking, do you know the difference in self perform maintenance between a '12 Cayman S versus a '14 Cayman S ? Or a '12 base Cayman versus a '14 base Cayman ? Also, over the long run I'd think a manual would be less costly then PDK , but I haven't heard of any real PDK stories of maintenance / failure / etc.

I should google the inherent advantages / disadvantages of the 2.7L Cayman versus the 2.9L Cayman. Less may be more.

I honestly do not know the differences in maintenance. The powertrain is identical in the '12 & '14 Cayman S's. I believe PDK is pretty reliable up to around 200,000 miles of average driving use. Supposedly the clutch in manual versions last on average 60-80,000 miles and that's a $2500-$3500 shop job. I say supposedly because my car has 103,000 miles and the clutch is still strong (previous owners' service records are possibly incomplete so who knows.)

I know even less about the 2.9 vs 2.7 liter conversation.

[LotsaMiles]

I've put 152k on my 2013 FRS and it brings a smile to my face every single day. I've been through seven sets of tires and settled on the Michelin PSS's a couple sets back. They are the best of ALL worlds on that car.


Half my 150 mile round trip commute is on some serious Kentucky twisties in areas where there are no cops and the roads are smooth. Hence burning through tires.


I honestly don't think these two cars compare, but that is because I'm not rich. Not only is the FRS a fraction of the price of the Porsche, but it's far cheaper to repair and I suspect easier to do DIY on. If money is no object (and apparently it isn't for you), it would be no contest - the Porsche.


But as far as bang for the buck is concerned, there is really no contest. That FRS is just a kick in the pants every time.


BTW, I'm with you regarding power. The FRS has all I need, and it is a manual.

[meadowz06]

A Porsche will require CONSTANT maintenance. Repairs will be frequent and expensive. And they are ugly to boot. My 2 cents.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by meadowz06

A Porsche will require CONSTANT maintenance. Repairs will be frequent and expensive. And they are ugly to boot. My 2 cents.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

It's okay, he was ragging on GTIs in another thread for being the most unreliable pos's ever.

Pretty safe to say he's got no personal experience with either. Porsches are damn reliable despite the overblown IMS issues make it seem. Same thing with the Golf. It's literally the best selling car in the world. Hating on German cars is cool though.

[WolfpackS2k]

^thank you. Correct, Porsches do NOT require constant maintenance. Let's dispel with that myth thank you very much.

I spent about 12 hours over the holiday weekend taking apart my Cayman's suspension (upgrading to coilovers). Other than getting access to the rear shock tower mounting bolts, working on it was just a straight forward as any other car I've done suspension work on.

LotsaMiles, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Michelin discontinued the Super Sport tires

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I believe PDK is pretty reliable up to around 200,000 miles of average driving use

Thank you for the response. So if you have Sport Crono package with PDK , and a driver puts the car into launch control , would that be considered "average driving use" ? I suspect not , but figured I'd ask. Given that much RPM at a stand still, then putting the car into motion, I'd think that would put a lot of stress/ torque on the transmission (PDK) … and to some degree the engine , but I didn't design PDK or know the nuances of how it can handle loads like that.