next gen 86 reportedly coming

[Leonardo]

Dang it. Now I miss my ap1. The s2000 has been described as a birthday present from Honda to Honda. IMO, it is PURE experience. ap2 has many changes/compromises that make it a better DD car, but no 9K redline VETC fun. (just 8k)

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by ermax

Having driven both I can tell you it’s a big difference. The AP1 feels like a B16A until 6k. The AP2 is way more tolerable at low RPMs. Sure it’s not a full model change but there are more signification changes than have been made to the Twins. I’ve never driven a 2017+ Twin but I suspect you can’t even tell it has 5 extra HP. Drive an AP1 and AP2 back to back and it’s impossible to not tell the difference.

I felt a difference in a manual MY17+ 86, but I highly doubt it was from the 5hp gain. It was more likely due to the shorter final drive.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Enkrow

I doubt that they would build a second gen twin on a 4-door platform. If they don't make another new chassis, I think it's more likely that they would build it on the same chassis as before, kind of like the S2K AP1/AP2.

I can see them doing that. They have to do something with Gunma after shifting volume production to the Lafayette, IN, plant when Toyota handed the Camry line over to Subaru.

Given Subaru's shift to larger global platforms, it would be cheaper for them to modify the current platform to accommodate a new drive train, interior and body panels.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Enkrow

I doubt that they would build a second gen twin on a 4-door platform. If they don't make another new chassis, I think it's more likely that they would build it on the same chassis as before, kind of like the S2K AP1/AP2.

Originally Posted by Atmo

I can see them doing that. They have to do something with Gunma after shifting volume production to the Lafayette, IN, plant when Toyota handed the Camry line over to Subaru.

Given Subaru's shift to larger global platforms, it would be cheaper for them to modify the current platform to accommodate a new drive train, interior and body panels.

Here we go again with the misunderstanding of what a "platform" is. The modern car platform is not a physical entity of one given size it is a basic architecture style.
The new global platform used in the Impreza is going to be applied across the whole line up (with the possible exception of the BRZ). The Crosstrek (small) and the Ascent (huge) will be built on the same platform. So will everything in between. It does not matter how big, small, number of doors, engine or even drive train the "platform" can be adjusted to meet the needs.
Don't picture the platform as a solid block that can only be used as a base for a limited number of cars but more like a lego set that can have pieces added or removed for limitless possibilities. It is unfortunent that the term platform is still used since it bring a totally wrong picture to mind.

[Atmo]

Pretty sure a vast majority here know that "platform" is being used casually in the same way we often read about "rims" vs. "wheels" or "motors" vs. "engines".

However, manufacturing nerds might like these links:

"From separate development of each part, to integrated development based on the concept of total optimization. The result is a lightweight, streamlined, high-performance platform and powertrain unit."

https://www.toyota-global.com/innovation/tnga/

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...etown-kentucky

[nikitopo]

@ermax There are people who have driven both cars (pre-'17 and +'17) side by side and mentioned the difference. Maybe people were expecting to see a flat torque without the dip and because the dip is still there they believe there isn't any difference or it is minimal. In fact the change is after 5.5k rpm with a bump in the torque. It cannot be felt much on ordinary driving if you don't rev the car, but it should definetely give better timings on a track.

Factory dyno comparison (blue pre-'17, red +'17)

Before the revision the blue torque was pretty much flat after 5.5k rpm. After the revision you can see the increase of torque.

Street dyno of a '+17 exhaust manifold and custom tune:

The range of the bump is around 10Nm which @6500 rpm gives approx. 9whp

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Pretty sure a vast majority here know that "platform" is being used casually in the same way we often read about "rims" vs. "wheels" or "motors" vs. "engines".

However, manufacturing nerds might like these links:

"From separate development of each part, to integrated development based on the concept of total optimization. The result is a lightweight, streamlined, high-performance platform and powertrain unit."

https://www.toyota-global.com/innovation/tnga/

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...etown-kentucky

I wish that the majority did but when comments such as "on a 4 door platform" or "switched to a larger platform" are made I am not convinced the real concept is fully understood.

[JD001]

I thought a "platform" was a place where one stands waiting for a train.. and quite possibly wearing "platform" shoes..

[meadowz06]

Most cannot tell a difference between a 16 and a 17 model. Hell, I can't tell any difference between my 13 and my 16.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by meadowz06

Most cannot tell a difference between a 16 and a 17 model. Hell, I can't tell any difference between my 13 and my 16.

See us commoners don't notice the changes since we are not pro racers that can tell how much tread wear a car has by how much it understeers. When the car is pushed hard you may be able to tell a minute difference but all of these massive changes people report while street driving seem more like confirmation of bias than anything. If you go in wanting to feel a big change then you will (of course that could be flipped the other way as well).

[Yoshoobaroo]

Fun fact: you can make a small car by basing it on a bigger platform. EG: the NC Miata is based on the RX8 platform, but is only marginally bigger than the NB.

The 370Z is smaller than the 350Z despite being on the same platform, albeit an evolution of it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Fun fact: you can make a small car by basing it on a bigger platform. EG: the NC Miata is based on the RX8 platform, but is only marginally bigger than the NB.

The 370Z is smaller than the 350Z despite being on the same platform, albeit an evolution of it.

It isn't even a new thing. From the late 70s to well into the 90s most Fords were built on the Fox platform.
The list of stuff built on the Chrysler K platform is overwhelming in it's variation.


Exact same platform. Very different vehicles

[Stephen W.]

Oooo this looks like fun... I want in, I want in too!


Same platform...







...as this:

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Oooo this looks like fun... I want in, I want in too!


Same platform...







...as this:

Yep. And the use of the existing platform allowed them to go from hand built, one off, car show concept to actual production in about 4 months. Something that just would not happen with a dedicated platform (looking at you Supara/BMW)