The real benefits of lightweight pulleys (quantified)

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Only front pulleys and flywheel are BEFORE the transmission and the gearing. Engine rotating internals are also constantly changed and get lightweight and with less friction by manufacturers to increase fuel efficiency. Are they dumb too on saving a few hundredth of grams? You can focus also on other rotating parts after the transmission, but they won't have the same advantage.

We cannot neglect the rotating components after transmission since whp is what we are trying to gain. Saving weight from the crank pulley has negligible effect on power compared to all those connected to the crank shaft when it is engaged to wheels. Shown in independent tests, light crank pulley has no effect on whp of our cars. I agree with you though that there might be some power gain if flywheel, transmission shaft, wheels, tires, and rotors are also lightened. Regarding accessory pulleys, I wouldn't touch water pump since engine cooling is more important than 1-2 HP gain, AC pulley is not engaged unless AC is on, alternator pulley might help but the gain is not worth the trouble. I am not reiterating (@humfrz is annoyed when I repeat myself) the vibration damping part of discussion. Enjoy driving your car!

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you blind? I provided dyno numbers some pages ago. There was another dyno plot at Nasioc with the same gains, but I cannot find it right now. I also did some acceleration measurements and my car was checked by a local tuner too, but not just with the pulley kit modification. Too many changes to have a before and after image for everything.

So, stop reading too much the internet and find a local tuner and work with him on your targets. Some prefer lightweight mods and to stay NA, others prefer to go FI from day one. We live in a free world and thankfully there are different options.

I see no dyno from you, just useless virtual things and no before and after objective measurements.. So no i m not blind and you re on same boats as people that provide no proof of pulleys doing something or not
I only see that you think pulleys give you 8 WHEELS hp and that makes me so uncomfortable to read

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I remember back-in-the-day, when I was a child, I tried to convince my grandpa that if he let me drill holes in the arms of that drive pully on the steam engine, it would be lighter and spin faster, thus allow the thrashing machine to run faster and we could get done thrashing sooner.

He told me to go back up to the farmhouse and bring back another jug of iced tea -


humfrz

HUMFRZ!!! If you want to thrash faster , you need this, not silly holes in pulleys. Also, what was that wicked looking machine you posted a pic of? Wasnt called a SLAYER was it ??? Huh punny ??

Also, ice tea is delicious.

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

...Different people want to show they are experts and knowledgable on things they cannot really understand and in general to show off. Funny thing is that noone from these people will post any before and after results either on a dyno or with logging to confirm that gains are zero or not...

...I'm your huckleberry

Go back a few posts and read the enginelabs test link I posted. It did just that - back to back installs with dyno runs, showed power LOSS from light weight pulley installation, and explained with objective test data why it happened.

Please read it. And then return to explain to us what we "cannot really understand" as you put it above. I'm curious how you'll spin it this time because it is exactly what you have asked for as evidence...and it's been up for two days with no response.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

...I'm your huckleberry

Go back a few posts and read the enginelabs test link I posted. It did just that - back to back installs with dyno runs, showed power LOSS from light weight pulley installation, and explained with objective test data why it happened.

Please read it. And then return to explain to us what we "cannot really understand" as you put it above. I'm curious how you'll spin it this time because it is exactly what you have asked for as evidence...and it's been up for two days with no response.

Maybe you need to post a lighter version of the facts so that he can spin it faster!

Keep in mind that you are talking to a guy that uses the graph from the total changes in the updated cars to support that he got big gains from putting just the new header on his 13 car. He is very very good at ignoring what he doesn't want to see and twisting totaly irrelevant data to meet his theories.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Maybe you need to post a lighter version of the facts so that he can spin it faster!

Keep in mind that you are talking to a guy that uses the graph from the total changes in the updated cars to support that he got big gains from putting just the new header on his 13 car. He is very very good at ignoring what he doesn't want to see and twisting totaly irrelevant data to meet his theories.

Ok. To prove my claims I have done before and after testing with dyno graphs. Before I was bone stock and made 170whp and 15second 1/4th mile. Now after I put the pulley on, in addition to a supercharger, E85, header back exhaust, final drive swap, tune, flywheel, driveshaft, wheels/tires, 300lbs of weight reduction. I now make 300whp and do 1/4mile in 12.5seconds. As you can clearly see the pulley made made 130whp! And 2.5seconds off 1/4mile. If you can’t see or understand this then you are the ignorant one. Case closed. Light weight pulley makes 130whp!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Ok. To prove my claims I have done before and after testing with dyno graphs. Before I was bone stock and made 170whp and 15second 1/4th mile. Now after I put the pulley on, in addition to a supercharger, E85, header back exhaust, final drive swap, tune, flywheel, driveshaft, wheels/tires, 300lbs of weight reduction. I now make 300whp and do 1/4mile in 12.5seconds. As you can clearly see the pulley made made 130whp! And 2.5seconds off 1/4mile. If you can’t see or understand this then you are the ignorant one. Case closed. Light weight pulley makes 130whp!

Meh. Amateur. If you strip all the paint off the car and cover it with WD40 you can pull low 11s.

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. Amateur. If you strip all the paint off the car and cover it with WD40 you can pull low 11s.

BOOM! Brainstorm - cover the car in LSPI DRA! Lowers drag in pipelines, has to work on cars right? Drag is drag...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

BOOM! Brainstorm - cover the car in LSPI DRA! Lowers drag in pipelines, has to work on cars right? Drag is drag...

I just use butter. Better for the environment and after a long drive on hot days I can cook eggs on the hood. I used a virtual egg timer app and found they cook .223 seconds faster if I do a second gear pull just before cracking them.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Only front pulleys and flywheel are BEFORE the transmission and the gearing. Engine rotating internals are also constantly changed and get lightweight and with less friction by manufacturers to increase fuel efficiency and get better response. Are they dumb too on saving a few hundredth or even tenth of grams from these parts? You can focus also on other rotating parts after the transmission, but they won't have the same advantage.


Anyway, got to go. Too many posts for this week and reached the limit of my quotas

Yes for mpg purposes lightened internals help but at a cost. The inertia is lost and performance suffers greatly at the bottom end.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I just use butter. Better for the environment and after a long drive on hot days I can cook eggs on the hood. I used a virtual egg timer app and found they cook .223 seconds faster if I do a second gear pull just before cracking them.

Duck fat works better.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by steve99

Just imagine the Health and Safety inspector seeing that contraption, have heart failure.


Or imagine the number or warning signs required


Beware of rotating parts
Do not put hand in machine
Keep long hair tied back
Warning high noise levels
Eye and hearing protection must be worn
Warning machine may start automaticly
Beware of belts
Do not allow children to play in area
Do not enter feed area if machine operating

Contact with rotating or moving parts may be hazardous
Beware of material being ejected from machine when in operation

......
......


No common sense these days

At least they didn't have to have a warning about "do not remove safety shields"

Yep, the warning signs would be 98% of the owners manual.

Owners manual! No such thing back in those days - when asked for a manual, the machinery dealer would simply say "if you can't figure out how that machine works, you have no business buying it!"


(I jest made that up)


humfrz

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Speaking of pulleys, can you imagine kids today being allowed to be around machines like this


humfrz

Or crawling inside of it in the dead of summer to fix a clog.

I have replaced so many flywheel bolts on a baler in the heat I get woozy thinking about it.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Are you blind? I provided dyno numbers some pages ago. There was another dyno plot at Nasioc with the same gains, but I cannot find it right now. I also did some acceleration measurements and my car was checked by a local tuner too, but not just with the pulley kit modification. Too many changes to have a before and after image for everything.

So, stop reading too much the internet and find a local tuner and work with him on your targets. Some prefer lightweight mods and to stay NA, others prefer to go FI from day one. We live in a free world and thankfully there are different options.

Post real 3rd party dyno's, not ones from the manufacturer. I haven't seen anything I would trust from a parts manufacture yet, look at all the gains claimed on CAI no matter how trusted the mfg is.

The Toda kit also underdrives the alternator.